The problem created is that Recreation Visits are not required!
Eg. I have a ship with a compliment of Crew to fly the ship and a bunch of additional military personel for anti-boarding, boarding, crew-backup etc..... When my efficiency drops due to lack of R&R, the additional CrewFactors nullify the effect totally.... and I believe for ever!
That ship never has to make an R&R visit
Before anyone mentions about the $tellars generated from the Rec Visit, there is a strong argument that the TUs could be better spent trading - making more $tellars. Especially if most of your Crewing is done by AI Navs!
So I'd like to sugguest a more 'realistic' method.
When a ship hits that mark of requiring a Rec Visit, it should be reported as it is now, including a message telling you exactly what the negative effect is:
| QUOTE |
| Crew have not had shore leave for 30 weeks, their efficiency is reduced BY 5% |
Each week that the ship continues to miss it's scheduled Rec Visit should see the effciency drop again, by 1-5% or something - and each ship report tells you what the current inefficiency level is as before.
This would enable people to pass the deadline, but before long, it just wouldn't be worth it. I would also like to see the possability of mutany on ships - drops too low and Wham! The crew revolt with potential deaths, and possible loss of ship (flagged PIR, but then what?)
It could also open up the doors for some research items to improve conditions onboard ships - Rec Decks etc. Maybe placing non-military personel into Bunks could cause a decrease in time before a Rec Visit is needed? Maybe some races have better tollerance of long-term space travel (FGZ are cool with it, but WMBs hate being away from home?)
Certainly not a priority, but it would bring Rec Visits back in as an important feature.
Clay
WMB Juicy Bovine (3681) has not had R&R for 45 weeks
This would enable people to pass the deadline, but before long, it just wouldn't be worth it. I would also like to see the possability of mutany on ships - drops too low and Wham! The crew revolt with potential deaths, and possible loss of ship (flagged PIR, but then what?)
It could also open up the doors for some research items to improve conditions onboard ships - Rec Decks etc. Maybe placing non-military personel into Bunks could cause a decrease in time before a Rec Visit is needed? Maybe some races have better tollerance of long-term space travel (FGZ are cool with it, but WMBs hate being away from home?)
Certainly not a priority, but it would bring Rec Visits back in as an important feature.
Clay
WMB Juicy Bovine (3681) has not had R&R for 45 weeks
I like the idea of possible mutinies(had them in the old game).The crew could take over the ship and maybe offer their services to another aff,being randomly seeded to another player,bit like the random seeding of new players!!
| QUOTE (Ted @ Sep 17 2004, 09:44 AM) |
| I voted for more rec penalties.It's just not realistic for a crew to carry on regardless. I like the idea of possible mutinies(had them in the old game).The crew could take over the ship and maybe offer their services to another aff,being randomly seeded to another player,bit like the random seeding of new players!! |
Well, I would also like to have the order... "spend some time off". Wich would cancel some of the penatlies.. If you look at series like Star Trek, you see people spending off-time on nice planets, without going to an casino. The payments should go to the government..
Also, I would like to know in advance when the ship is needing some R&R, don't who have an petty-officer who keeps track of when the crew had its last recreation??
Also, going to an very good R&R should increase efficiency above 150%
| QUOTE |
| Also, I would like to know in advance when the ship is needing some R&R, don't who have an petty-officer who keeps track of when the crew had its last recreation?? |
Thats already done on your political 3 weeks prior to the current 20% penalty being imposed.
Nik
| QUOTE |
| That's true, but you only get the update if you run the ship during those 3 weeks. |
Its printed on your political.... does it not work unless you update the ships ?
And to be honest it's less of an issue than just running a ship with one crew member which, although i hanv't tried this myself, according to the manual you could overpay the single crew member by the cost it would normally be to crew the ship and still hit 100% efficency, and save more space than you do using ai-navs.
Yes, I think mutinies (sp?) would be a nice touch. (IND would be better than PIR btw
But what would happen when they mutiny? There is no AI in the game so basically the ship would sit there. What was the point of the mutiny then? Some kind of random movement perhaps?I think, always have, always will, that there should be various differences between races. Rec time is only one them (DEN would not require rec visits as long as there are over a certain number of crew for example...)
I also suggest that if rec penalties are increased there should be a rec visit standing order that lets you set the starbase and number of weeks after a rec visit is due. At that point the ship will ignore whatever orders it has and head directly for that starbase to make a rec visit.
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ Oct 11 2004, 03:08 PM) |
| Yes, I think mutinies (sp?) would be a nice touch. (IND would be better than PIR btw But what would happen when they mutiny? There is no AI in the game so basically the ship would sit there. What was the point of the mutiny then? Some kind of random movement perhaps? |
Steve, its obvoius, when a ship mutinies the crew want to start a new life, and theres no where better than the RIP for that
so, logicaly, they should be turned over to a random RIP policital (with a little message so Hellscream isn't confused).We never enquire into a crews past
Seeding to a random aff would be more logical though....
| QUOTE (Clay @ Oct 12 2004, 11:06 AM) |
| Don't forget we're only discussing if there should be a more in-depth approach to Recreation here, and not how to handle it |
Well I think they sort of come together. We are not saying we want more/harsher rec penalties if that means that the ship self-destructs one day after the rec visit is overdue, thus destroying all other positions within a 3 quad radius. Are we
But it makes sense to discuss ideas while the thread is here.
| QUOTE |
| Seeding to a random aff would be more logical though.... |
Which would mean seeding to a random political...
But then what? The crew are still stressed and overdue their rec visit, wouldn't they just immediately mutiny from the new aff?
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a mutiny, but not sure how we would work it in Phoenix (like I said in a computer game it would be passed over to the computer's control, but I don't think Mica would want to start running all the ships that mutiny, or would he? It would be pretty cool if he did, or if David put in some rudimentary AI routines for mutinied ships (no pressure, AI coding is so easy
The Mutineers auto issue a Move to Starbase, Dock, Visit Rec complexes - then return control to the original political.
No change of owner at any tme - you just lose control of the ship.
Obviously - if anything bad happens in the meantime - then you don't have control... tough luck!
I would also like to think that a small %age chance of defecting from the current affiliation and going GM controlled would be acceptable.
GTdoug.
Allow each political to select whether they want to accept ships that mutiny (will only mutiny to sides that are actively at war with your affiliation).
Only allow mutinies where a route can be plotted to enemy system.
Alternatively declare IND/PIR and plot course for nearest breathable world and land in a vegetation terrain. - This could be improved on when infrastructure was added.
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ Oct 12 2004, 09:17 PM) |
| But then what? The crew are still stressed and overdue their rec visit, wouldn't they just immediately mutiny from the new aff? |
Okay, fine - we'll discuss it now
Seriously though, this was my original problem when I first posted the idea of increasing the Recreation aspects.
I would think their need for Rec Visits would lessen temoprarily once they rebel - new found freedom, promise of a better life etc.
I like Micas' sugguestion about heading for a breathable planet - would the ship be abandoned there like a ground Debris field, or an unclaimed ship ready for later discovery? Or stripped by the locals/crew for materials?
If you are at war wtih someone, then there is a % chance that the crew will Defect to the enemy, otherwise they head for their own freedom.
| QUOTE (Clay @ Oct 12 2004, 12:13 PM) |
| I like Micas' sugguestion about heading for a breathable planet - would the ship be abandoned there like a ground Debris field, or an unclaimed ship ready for later discovery? Or stripped by the locals/crew for materials? |
Yeah, I like that too. Turn IND (not PIR as you can't ever get rid of the PIR flag!), head for a semi-random breathable planet, ditch the ship, remove up to ?% random items to go off and found their own hotdog stand on the beach or something (iow the crew are never seen again).
Then you have the chance of a search and recovery of the ship if it's worth the effort. (You'd want to search quite hard for some ships, and not bother with the hassle for others).
Adds a whole new level to the game, and opens up a new line of business for the peace-time bounty hunter...
| QUOTE (ABBA @ Oct 12 2004, 03:06 PM) |
| An idea for the otherwise purposeless non-navel officers - their presence on-board reduces the chance of mutiny. |
Perfect.
On a world with a population, some of the locals may have joined the mutineers so it is an even bigger fight against lots of native soldiers (ewoks to the defense
). | QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Oct 12 2004, 05:36 PM) |
| In fact some of the old crew may use the ship as a makeshift base and so a boarding action could be necessary to recover it. On a world with a population, some of the locals may have joined the mutineers so it is an even bigger fight against lots of native soldiers (ewoks to the defense ). |
See, I can tell you really like the way this is going
Not sure I like the way Phoenix is slowly turning into Empire Strikes Back though ...
| QUOTE |
| In fact some of the old crew may use the ship as a makeshift base and so a boarding action could be necessary to recover it. On a world with a population, some of the locals may have joined the mutineers so it is an even bigger fight against lots of native soldiers (ewoks to the defense ). |
I like this idea,but please for the love of the true one..no bloody Ewoks!!!!
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ Oct 12 2004, 05:52 PM) |
| Not sure I like the way Phoenix is slowly turning into Empire Strikes Back though ... |
I do!
....and Geoff is your father
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ Oct 12 2004, 04:52 PM) | ||
See, I can tell you really like the way this is going Not sure I like the way Phoenix is slowly turning into Empire Strikes Back though ... |
In that case Steve there is only one thing to do.
Use the Farce Steve, use the Farce!!!
And that is not a typo.
| QUOTE (Ted @ Oct 12 2004, 05:05 PM) |
| I like this idea,but please for the love of the true one..no bloody Ewoks!!!! |
strange - I've always thought of Naplians as mouthy ewoks.....
Dan
If any one is claiming the title of "Most like an Ewok" then it's me
| QUOTE (Clay @ Oct 13 2004, 11:21 AM) |
| *crawls out from under the coal tender of this derailed topic* If any one is claiming the title of "Most like an Ewok" then it's me |
Got to agree with Clay there. Small, furry, speaks gibberish and annoying as hell.
;p
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ Oct 13 2004, 10:26 AM) | ||
Got to agree with Clay there. Small, furry, speaks gibberish and annoying as hell. ;p |
But kinda cute in their own way!
weenie
