~~~~~~~~~~~
This whole discussion is being brought about because of a discrepancy in the game items. Every other race has an identical set of types - slave, civilian, employee and the various troop types - EXCEPT the Hive race.
One of the underlying principles to the game, was that each of the race's lifeforms should be equal. Clearly, this is not the case when comparing Hive eggs with the various other civilian types. As things stand, there is an overlap between hive eggs and hive slaves. Trade in the Hive's civilian-equivalent is being treated IC by many as trade in slaves. WHY should the Hive's item-types be any different in this regard to any other's race? The ONLY reason is roleplay - but none of the rest of us are being given the leeway to have our race's items significantly different to the other races' items for roleplay purposes. Each of the rest of the "one-race" affs lost the racial differentiations we had, in terms of the race lifeform items.
So I can see the validity of the request that the eggs (as a game item) become mere civilians, from that general principle. Otherwise, what is there to stop (for example) the FCN demanding that all their troops gain air movement rather than ground movement? Or even for Falconians to have eggs of their own? We are then back down the slippery slope of each race having something special about it, and the affs using the races that are best for the particular task they have in mind. Which was precisely the reason why Mica and David wanted identical races in terms of game items.
But I can also understand the desire for the Hive-based affs to continue to roleplay the eggs as their children, especially since they have been allowed to for so long in Phoenix. So is there a middle way that can make the "sale" of "Hive Civilians" - that are identical in every way to every other race's civilians - possible? Another side effect of the Hive eggs, is that the average resource complex (yes, Hive queens laying eggs, but I'm trying to deal in the game mechanics so far as it is possible) generates a lot more hive eggs than the average civilian recruitment resource (at least in my experience, anybody who knows different, feel free to correct me on this!)
For example, can we have a standard use possible for an exchange complex (which is hardly used in the game - is it used at all right now?), which can effectively act as a hatchery/nursery that allows Hive eggs to mature into "civilians" - even if they are called a different name, so long as their "trade" is seen in the same light as the "trade" game mechanic in every other race's civilians, ie. as admin fees, or enticements to come to a planet to settle, etc., NOT selling people as you would slaves. If the parameters were set properly, it would also mean that instead of getting 700 Hive eggs with the same intrinsic "value" (in terms of increasing populations, etc.) as any other civilians, you would get an equivalent amount of "civilans" as every other race.
Those which chose to do so could have the equivalent number of hive civilians as they would have had from a Feline, Human, Dewiek or any other race civilian recruitment resource by having one egg resource, and (for example) four exchange complex "hatchery/nurseries". Those that chose otherwise could then be lambasted and attacked as dealers in Hive children - they gain the advantage of having the current extra benefit from the resource (700 lifeforms per relevant complex instead of 140 per relevant complex) at the risk of the bad publicity that they would receive from doing so, the "slave trader"-type accusation...
Dan
I don't honestly see the problem with them, all of the issues about whether they are dealing in Hive Children can be resolved via IC opinions and communications, or so it seems to me. And if the Hive players think it is dealing in their children, then that IC opinion would, to me in an in-character sort of way, carry the most weight. Or such is what my character in the game would think.
But, I'm not directly involved in this, so I don't really have an opinion, other than to say what I've already said - I'm really glad they're in the game.
Also i would really like to know, if 1mu civilian of anykind is just 1 person or a group of them, because it can have meaning, like if its 3 to 5, then a hive egg could be some eggs and an adult following them, to ensure they are hatched right, then its nolonger slavery.
If its just 1mu hive egg = 1 egg, then i would say remove the item, especially if they are not born with an adults memory, because its unrealistic they would last like that.
And the excuse that Hive Civilians doesn't exist is in my eye nonsense. Otherwise you wouldn't have an population on an planet to which you can sell items too. Also, if you go this route, you wouldn't have working recruitments complexes, as you need to hatch new eggs to get workers or wairrors...
Hives are like any other race. They have civilians (those who are not working for the starbase) and you recruit the WORKERS among them when you recruit them in your complexes or you recruit the untrained troops...
So what will it be, do you have Hive Civies (and merchandising income) or don't??
Actually I am not considering the naming size of the Hives such an big problem, but more the way they are handled. From mine experiences the Hives are the only race with an population growth. I need to check it, (I got an planet on which I am the only one present) but some time ago, i checked the size of the population and it was the same.. Now you are talking about resourcing civilains, I am not really sure, but I have seen at least one situation where all the civilains were removed using resource complexes. Luckely recruitment complexes doesn't substract the number of population yet on an planet, but I recall Mica stating that this is going to happen with the infrastructureal thingie is going to work. In that case ANY recruitment will not only increase your wage bill but also decrease your merchandising making small planets (population wise) to be dead-end planets.
In that view I can really understand why Hives are so eager to have the monopoly on Hive Eggs. They will be the only one with an population growth... and it the end they will live out all the other races...
I would like to have an confirmation from Mica if this is indeed the situation.
I find it very odd that a belligerant IC message suddenly turns into an occ cry for Mica, I feel it shows the true characters of those behind certain affs. I guess COH isn't as cooperative as they were...or that they don't really know what to do with eggs
| QUOTE (Avatar @ Aug 1 2005, 09:23 AM) |
| But i guess you loved when the super warriors and warriors got reduced to "normal" troops and when FEL learned suddenly to jump 4 systems, when FCN got to build anything other than paper light, or I must add that you have a base population while HVE, OPS and COH do not. I find it very odd that a belligerant IC message suddenly turns into an occ cry for Mica, I feel it shows the true characters of those behind certain affs. I guess COH isn't as cooperative as they were...or that they don't really know what to do with eggs |
Well, I wasn't part of Phoenix when this all happened.
The only thing I know is that Kastorians can handle non-kastorian ships better and that Hive as the only race have an population growth. And as far as I know FCN lost lots of special powers during the transition... Does HullShift, Fighter Controllers and those Xlights tell you anything??
All races lost during the conversion.
All what I ask is confirmation from Mica that my gut-feeling (no population growth for non-hives) is true. This problem should be solved with the next civilian upgrade, whenever this happens.
If an base sets 50 Research Complexes into manufacturing Hive Queens(conversion at 5000) they can produce an Hive Queen every two weeks.
If they "seed" the Queen in every second week and get those eggs producing and sell them to the population they will generate in one year about 62.500 new Hives civilians. Doing some scans on planet with about 50k civies living their they will generate with 80 complex some 8410 stellars thats an net profit of 7600 stellars per week, not counting selling those Hive Eggs (and ofcourse the proceeds of the selling to the local population.
Costs will be 26*15000stellars = 390.000 stellars. Income in one year will be 52*7610 stellars = 395.720 stellars.
Yeah, I know its expensive as you need 28 SA's (26 to turn the Queens into an egg layer and 2 to get the market value recalculated). But thats less then runing an base...
The next year you will get 52 * 2500 = 130.000 Hive Eggs, enough to settle two of those small planets... Assuming ofcourse that an Hive Queen isn't burning out..
Well, if somebody can tell me where I counted wrong, I would be more then happy to correct it.. But with the current assumptions things should be calculated correctly.
How many FCN live in Acropolis? How many Humans in the game? How many Kastorians in Yank alone? And how many Hive in the game?
| QUOTE (Garg @ Aug 1 2005, 10:12 AM) |
| I am not doing a ooc cry for mica, i want mica to explain the hive egg and i need to know if 1mu lifeform of any kind, is just 1 animal/person or if its a small group of them. |
It would vary between lifeforms.
| QUOTE (Avatar @ Aug 1 2005, 10:59 AM) |
| How about % drop? Like in other resources. How many FCN live in Acropolis? How many Humans in the game? How many Kastorians in Yank alone? And how many Hive in the game? |
Some players are resourcing huge amount of hive eggs per week...
Anyway, it seems that every queen might be considered an diferent resource, thats where I base my calculations on...
But the current number of Falconians or Hives doesn't count.. its the growth.
At the looks of it, I am not 100% sure (but I will know in one or two days) its 0% for all races except Hives.
I might be mistaken, but then I am owning some starbases for about an year now, and I have NEVER seen an increase in merchandising income.. And don't tell me that I am recruiting too many employees/merchs because those aren't deducted from the population.. and it would be really funny if the growth would be always equal to the recruitment.
To be honest I know those calculations for the better part of an year.. and I was never bothered with it, especially as I was buying those hive eggs myself.. and to my knowledge the next civilian upgrade should compensate for that.. but I am getting a bit impatient :-(
I can tell that recovering planets after FEL have had their hand in it gives increases far lower than that and that involved recovering continents.
Now a maddening 62k new hive, like you suggested. means probably a 100% increase in population of many worlds, but in market terms 120k inhabitants is hardly a major population centre.
I know there many players getting hives, but those that count, the guy who play it IC and keep a "pure" population don't have that. And "those" players don't actually need Hive for they have the resources already....that and haven't realized the dangers of having too big Hive populations:)
| QUOTE (Avatar @ Aug 1 2005, 12:28 PM) |
| Now a maddening 62k new hive, like you suggested. means probably a 100% increase in population of many worlds, but in market terms 120k inhabitants is hardly a major population centre. |
The fact remains that Hive is the only race with *new* civilians.
You only need to invest 15.000 stellars and 50 complexes to get one Blueprint.
You can combine multiple blueprints in one SA and you will have an steady flow in new hives. Thats the advantage the Hives will have and this advantage is going to keep adding up.
We are not talking about huge population on new worlds. We are talking about enough population to sustain new bases. 50-60k population can sustain an starbase with about 8000 people working on it. Its an small world, but it is an world that have the ability to grow without bleeding other dry.
Think about this situation in long term.. which is Phoenix is all about!!
If you can afford to wait one year in getting a new principle then you can also afford one year waiting getting a new midsize base... without looting other planets.
No it's not!
| QUOTE (Avatar @ Aug 1 2005, 09:23 AM) |
| But i guess you loved when the super warriors and warriors got reduced to "normal" troops and when FEL learned suddenly to jump 4 systems, |
we gained the ability to jump 4 systems after the merger with the CLN - we just didn't publicise it
) We had also gained official status with the EEM before the conversion - so we didn't lose any unique DISadvantages in the move from BSE to Phoenix...Dan
Also phoenix started with there is tech, no special abilities, so Queens and hive eggs are tech stuff, i would agree with that bit, if you want something special for Hive, then other affs should have specials as well, thats my take on this
What you're objecting and everyone that read the other forum know,s is that some people actually roleplay and consider eggs to be their unborn siblings. If you have problem with that line, then I suggest you do your own RP and boil the eggs, or go with the flow.
You've heard many people, never attached to either of the 3 affs listed above that they feel the hive race adds to the game the way its setup. You do not agree, fine! I don't agree with loads of stuff either.
Except in phoenix, there we got static populations.. Thats what I am objecting against. I wouldn't give an s**t if any other race had also some growth (and could influence it a bit, by doing the right thing) but in one year time, i have seen planetary populations being static.. and we both know what the effect on the war was for Janth...
No race, EXCEPT for the hive, can replace those dead people..
Instead, FCN choose to sell them to all and sundry at the top price - does that mean you are selling your own "people" as slaves? What do the Falconian Geese, who are LIFE, think about this? Does it matter?
No, because you don't roleplay them as such.
However, HVE do roleplay the eggs as their children and that is their choice in this game, so perhaps we should just accept this, just as we accept FCN's roleplay choice.
I don't agree that other affs should get something just because HVE have Queens. All affs are not equal and everyone has a choice on which one to join. If you want Queens and eggs, then maybe join HVE!
Just my two stellars worth.
weenie
On a weekly basis
Population = Population x weekly growth rate (WGR)
Therefore to double the population takes 1300 (52 x 25) weeks
2 x pop = pop x WGR^1300
or
2 = WGR^1300
ln2 = 1300 ln(WGR)
WGR = e^(ln2/1300)
WGR = 0.053%
Can somebody check my maths
Therefore a population of 1 million should roughly grow at 500 people per week.
We should be able to include this growth during the infrastructure and custome order upgrade.
| QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Aug 2 2005, 10:52 AM) |
| For the sake of argument, lets say that a human population doubles every 25 years. <<<< snip calculations >>> WGR = 0.053% Can somebody check my maths Therefore a population of 1 million should roughly grow at 500 people per week. We should be able to include this growth during the infrastructure and custome order upgrade. |
It would solve some issues... altough i do find it a bit weird that hives had the population growth all this time.. But an growth of 0.053% (while keeping track of partial humans) might be a bit low, but more realistic.. I would assume that an smaller population will grow faster then an big settled in population?? History has shown that immigrants tend to breed quite a lot :-)
And ofcourse as the FCN are egg-layers they should get an higher birthrate :-)
| QUOTE (DEN_weenie @ Aug 2 2005, 10:22 AM) |
| In the same way that HVE roleplay the Hive Eggs as their children/siblings, then FCN could always roleplay, say the Falconian Geese as their children/siblings. Instead, FCN choose to sell them to all and sundry at the top price - does that mean you are selling your own "people" as slaves? What do the Falconian Geese, who are LIFE, think about this? Does it matter? |
Falconian Goose are non sentients. They are just an birdlike creature.
We don't have any problem with selling them, as they are non-related to Falconians. I assume the Dewieks have no problems in sellings dogs and the felini's in selling cats??
The FCN has got an issue with ENSLAVING Falconians but if an Falconian decided to leave his homeland and move to another regio, than its his/her choice. Ofcourse the family will goes with them...
But since they have been part of our diet since forever, we dont consider them anything else then food, so we dont mind selling them <g>
Did someone say cannibals
So any affs that own a queen is as much hive as any of those thats Hive affs, so i dont see a reason why they cant sell and buy hive eggs?
You can argue that they are being bought to make into slaves, but then that can be disproven, by letting someone neutral go to a planet with lots of hives on it and make some tests.
We do not have any slaves, the hive eggs are not slaves, they are being bought to be added to Hive planets we own, i doubt the hives we already have, dislike that idea
Anyone who have a queen and gets eggs that way, can do whatever they want to do with their eggs, why because its part of their aff, not part of COH, OPS or HVE.
I do understand why you play this way, but you must understand that some of us, due to mica and how he setup this game, view it differently, like me i dont see 1mu hive eggs as just eggs, i actually view it more like a group, so 1mu hive eggs = eggs + some adults, so no slavery here.
So if mica would please take some time to explain what the 1mu of hive eggs mean, then we could get past this confusing, until he does that, then neither of what you or i say is really true.
| QUOTE (Sjaak @ Aug 2 2005, 11:15 AM) | ||
|
Well Sjaak, personally I wouldn't sell "dogs" (if they existed in Phoenix) but that's me roleplaying. If someone else was selling creatures that were linked to the Dewiek race, then it's the DEN's prerogative to either take offence, or not.
HVE take offence if people sell their eggs, which is their choice - you choose not to take offence at people buying and selling your distant cousins the Goose, but that's your choice.
If I were selling Human Civilians on my market, then if a human Aff chose to, they too could take offence, saying that the civvies were slaves even if I thought they weren't. It's just roleplay and perception at the end of the day.
And Dan, 1mu hive egg = egg + adults could be construed as slavery, just as 1mu hive egg = just egg could be seen as slavery.
Hive eggs/Queens aren't exclusive to the HVE, OPS or COH, but it's great roleplay that only those affs are 'allowed' to deal in the eggs without it being seen as exploitation.
cheers
weenie
| QUOTE (Garg @ Aug 2 2005, 11:49 AM) |
| Avatar, its fun to see you argue this, but Hive eggs are not an exclusive Hive item in phoenix, was not even in the end of BSE, so anyone with queens and eggs are actually hive affs today, so get over it. Anyone who have a queen and gets eggs that way, can do whatever they want to do with their eggs, why because its part of their aff, not part of COH, OPS or HVE. I do understand why you play this way, but you must understand that some of us, due to mica and how he setup this game, view it differently, like me i dont see 1mu hive eggs as just eggs, i actually view it more like a group, so 1mu hive eggs = eggs + some adults, so no slavery here. So if mica would please take some time to explain what the 1mu of hive eggs mean, then we could get past this confusing, until he does that, then neither of what you or i say is really true. |
The arguement stems from roleplay - you roleplay eggs as being ok to trade...others dont<shrug> What the 1mu represents in game mechanic terms is really irrelevant.
Hive Eggs are produced via BP. If those with Falconians have tried - and failed - to get a Falconian Egg BP too, you might have a case. Same for Humans trying to get a Creche BP (or something) to speed up civilian growth. Or dont drugs work to increase populations?
Mark
PS. I find it funny that the FCN are arguing against Hive Eggs being slaves just because the hiver affiliations think trading them is slavery...whilst they support the FEL whose arguement stem from the same vein (protecting all the felini regardless of where they are)
Is selling them slavery?
I suppose it could be seen as this as the egg sees no immediate financial benefit for its sale.
Alternatively you could view a starbase as a combined nursery and emigration office, charging a fee for the investment in the creation and running costs of a brood chamber for the hive queen.
You could also argue that the egg benefits in the final seeding onto a world and the ability to earn a living.
Finally, there is a specific item for slaves.
Is it exploitation?
Tell what isn’t in some form or another…
Why is there no definitive GM answer?
This is a matter of perception. If the Hive believe its slavery, from their perspective it bloody well is and they can feel righteously indignant as they burn starbases with brood chambers to the ground rather than let their precious brainwashed queens be exploited by tyrannical alien fiends.
If the Falconians believe it is not, let them defend their psychologically stable queens within their comfy brood chambers from the racist zealotry of the hive.
| QUOTE (FLZPD @ Aug 2 2005, 12:11 PM [/QUOTE) |
The arguement stems from roleplay - you roleplay eggs as being ok to trade...others dont<shrug> What the 1mu represents in game mechanic terms is really irrelevant. Mark PS. I find it funny that the FCN are arguing against Hive Eggs being slaves just because the hiver affiliations think trading them is slavery...whilst they support the FEL whose arguement stem from the same vein (protecting all the felini regardless of where they are) |
The FCN buys Hive Eggs for seeding into the planet. Most of the time (as I got plenty of lifegoods to sell) I don't even bother to sell them using "sell to local populaiton". I wait untill I got an decent stock and then seed them in.
The Hives who live on Falconian ruled planets are ofcourse really happy to see more people like them... It also increases the chances for them to get some Hive's articles <g> I wouldn't be an good representative of my people (which includes the hives on FCN planets) if i didn't responded on the request of the hives to increase their number or to get an queen..
Anyway, I do think that this forum is about GAME RULES and not really about the never-ending dispute between FELs and FLZ..
Personally I'm glad to see that OPS have the same opinions I had as HVE PD as I think it adds to the game experience.
IC: FEL regard that testing WoMD in other peoples bases doesn't amount to agression, the FLZ do. If teh Humans believed that WoMD wasn't morally reproachable, the Tau Ceti wouldn't have been signed, but I'd like to believe it was public opinion that forced the polititians to sign it. Well OPS is appealling to public opinion on the egg issue. Some will agree and abide, others will claim to abide by it and continue their practices and other liek perhaps the FCN will disregard the issue. Hey its a game, you get from it what you put into it...only do it ic not ooc
| QUOTE (Avatar @ Aug 2 2005, 12:35 PM) |
IC: FEL regard that testing WoMD in other peoples bases doesn't amount to agression, the FLZ do. If teh Humans believed that WoMD wasn't morally reproachable, the Tau Ceti wouldn't have been signed, but I'd like to believe it was public opinion that forced the polititians to sign it. Well OPS is appealling to public opinion on the egg issue. Some will agree and abide, others will claim to abide by it and continue their practices and other liek perhaps the FCN will disregard the issue. Hey its a game, you get from it what you put into it...only do it ic not ooc |
Well, mine opinion (as an Falconian) is quite simple.
We consider all civilians to be equal (but ofcourse not the same). So we try to work in the best interest of all of our civilians. That means that for the Hives we are actively looking for more Hive Queens to guide them.
None of the hives living on our planets have the urge to re-settle, and some of those are active within our starbases as workers and others as troops to defend them.
For those who wish to know about the politics of the Falconian Empire, those might want to read the system message of Acropolis <g>
Avatar i was mainly interested in know more IC about what hive eggs was, now i have some IC info i can go with
Game wise i do understand you and you go with what you want, this place is about game rules and info more then IC stuff, thats why i have not said anything on the forum on this subject for a while
Perhaps you should begin some real peace talks, thats my take on it anyway, as i am more worried about defending ourselves versus FLZ/DNA attacks on our homesystem and any people under our protection, then i am of the history of other races.
Now that Mica have given his say on the hive eggs, then go with slavery if you want too, i will comment on it at some point, not because i dont want too, but i got other problems besides those hive eggs, which i dont buy
ooc I might provide answers, but I suggest you contact your fellow COH, for some background.
I for one as FLZ will only use OPS IC statement that they regard you as slavers, especially after you (read Consortium) accused us of doing so without the hard evidence of a public slave market like you (FCN)
But this isn't an IC forum so I let's not bore the others
well i am part of the consortium, but since i am never been in your space,
i am not able to comment on any of what happens there afterall, so i stay
out of it.
Yeah might be right thing to do, not to bore the others.
| QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Aug 2 2005, 10:52 AM) |
| For the sake of argument, lets say that a human population doubles every 25 years. On a weekly basis Population = Population x weekly growth rate (WGR) Therefore to double the population takes 1300 (52 x 25) weeks 2 x pop = pop x WGR^1300 or 2 = WGR^1300 ln2 = 1300 ln(WGR) WGR = e^(ln2/1300) WGR = 0.053% Can somebody check my maths Therefore a population of 1 million should roughly grow at 500 people per week. We should be able to include this growth during the infrastructure and custome order upgrade. |
Alternately, look at the 1300th root of 2 - but yes, your numbers tally
)Dan
50 per 1000 population, or 5% per year, gives a weekly growth rate of roughly 0.09%, so Mica's figures are somewhere around the middle of real world growth rates. In other words, entirely reasonable :-)
Richard
AFT
I think that if death rate attrition were added in we'd see a much lower increase than what Mica presented. Still, it's only a game and you shouldn't have to be an accountant to play it
(Imagine having to wait 15 or so years before being able to recruit those new civilians...)Cheers,
Rich Fanning
aka
Lord Lawrence Scrimm
CIA Intelligence Director
| QUOTE (Lord Scrimm @ Aug 2 2005, 11:34 PM) |
| Although the birth rates may tally nicely, there is something called mortality that we all must face... I think that if death rate attrition were added in we'd see a much lower increase than what Mica presented. Still, it's only a game and you shouldn't have to be an accountant to play it (Imagine having to wait 15 or so years before being able to recruit those new civilians...)Cheers, Rich Fanning aka Lord Lawrence Scrimm CIA Intelligence Director |
I think the figures that Mica has presented is in effect an indication of net growth of a populuation. This I interpret as meaning the net effect of births and deaths.
However, it is not unreasonable that this rate be configured as a signed integer, as this then allows for deliberate actions/laws or enviromental conditions affecting this measure.
An example in point is the probablitity of survival in extremely harsh environments, rampant disease, or the impact on remaining population when WOMD has been deployed nearby etcetera.
Dan
This is 5 bp's in a hatchery.
Hive Egg (564) ***** 500 1 199286
there is a 10% drop every 1 complex.
3 Hive Egg (564) ***** 1350
so 3 complexes would result in 1350 eggs per week with a maximum produced of 199286.
Nowhere on the turns is there an indication of the number of hive eggs available increasing due to population growth. Each bp added increases the population pool by 40k or so. The investment in the queen bp's does not result in infinite amounts of eggs being available for the resource complexes to exploit. Once the eggs are gone .. they are gone. So if you wish to continue exploting them you will need to invest in more bp's.
Personally I found that getting HVE employees and troops as COH was very hard due to the fact that there is soo few planets with them around. If anything, the HVE aff's are disadvantaged by this (due to them being a late arrival in the peripheries) and the eggs help them a bit. The fact that other people have access to the eggs is irrelevant.
Not long ago someone trade oriented was complaining that it was unfair that other aff's had better technology than him because they could make bundles selling it. Much more than a freighter hauling 6000 geese several times back and forth between profitable locations. An argument was that this made trade of uniques useless because much more could be made by trading tech, with less effort, than all the hauling of goods in the game.
So if you want to make money dont sell eggs. Take the 25 bp's, make high demand bp's instead and you will make MUCH more money than selling eggs to the local population. I have sold BP's for 2-3 ships per bp AS an egg producing HVE related affiliation ... because it was so much more profitable for me to do so than sell eggs. Do the math's here ... 25 bps @ 3 ships each (75 light hulls) = 75 ships @ 3200 cargo = 240 000 mu's I can shift per week after the first year. How much will that make me if I haul regular goods ... and replace all the crew with AI.
Sigh. It is possible to take things too far, and the issue with hve eggs being unfair (due to profits made) does exactly that. Leave them as what they are .. a roleplaying possiblity for a few aff's in the game.
Gord
Andy
| QUOTE (Andy @ Aug 15 2005, 08:34 AM) |
| What about ther merchandising factors once the eggs have been seeded - The stellars returned must be worth it. Andy |
Which is exactly why i didn't even bothered to put the selling of the hive egss into account... The increase of the merchandising income (not even MARKET income, as that means you need to get trade goods) is making sure you have an breakeven in one year.
Also, it seems that there is an difference between current Hive Eggs Resources and new ones..