Phoenix Forums

HPSimms

One for the Wish List.

The current situation that a "fleet" can be set up by having a group of ships support/defend the group lead ship. The main disadvantage is that if the admiral does not scan the enemy everyone sits around doing nothing, regardless of what the rest might have scanned.

What I would like is for a Fleet concept to be introduced to the game as a data item containing ships and some rules for how the fleet behaves:-

Method of creating a Fleet (2 or more ships)
Method of appointing/changing a command ship for an existing fleet
Method for ships to join or leave an existing fleet, to allow multi player participation in the same fleet.
Rules for fleet:-

Fleet members always scan each other if together at the same location.
If one ship in the fleet scans a potential enemy the admiral's enemy lists are checked and a battle situation is triggered.
Move the fleet as a whole on the lead ships orders. (Should only include fleet members present at the same location).

Geoff

Frabby

I generally comply with the wish (this way the IMP would lose far more of their scouts, greetings to the Captain of the Bostonian 1 from me ;-), but I can see one problem for which I cannot see a suitable solution:

Ships move one after another. If the 11th ship out of a fleet of 20 ships scans an enemy on the way, then the first 10 ships of the fleet will already have passed by and only the remaining 9 ships will have their lists triggered, assuming they are set "on patrol". No fleet setting can call the other ships back.

The only possible solution would be to use a new position type that moves the ships as a coherent unit, but Mica has discarded this idea. The reasons against Fleet positions are at least as good as the reasons for.

Dan Reed

The largest reason against fleets, is that it acts against the need to spread positions out amongst players due to the logistics of running them all.

The solution to your specific problem would be for the flagship of the fleet (ie. the admiral) to be the sensor ship in the fleet - plus a large number of engines and defences of course. The admiral is then directing the fleet more than shooting himself...

Dan

CNF_PD

Shooting himself.. thats a new low for the Imperial admirals <grin>

Just kidding...

Spoke to Mica about this at the bristol meet, whilst everyone would like this to be implemented with fleet positions etc.. it is frought with lots of potential problems such as that ships move one after the other and not together (thus causing problems with a fleet position checking things in the same location for enemy lists), you could potentially have half the fleet go through without stopping and the other half stop...

Summary just on a simple level there but it had been considered but as I understood is not a simple thing to implement properly.

Nevertheless its on my wish list too

Cheers,

Ewan

Gandolph

i initially thought in favour of the fleet idea, but having heard both sides of the argument, realise this may cause problems with the spreading of ships to new players.

In theory the people building them would just add them to the current fleet turn causing them no extra loss of real time and control, meaning you would never pass the ship on. This also means it takes the "cock up" factor out of the game. as a full fleet will turn up under the proposed new system where and when it is supposed to, under the current rules there is the "real" risk of certain squadrons not turning up when supposed to or with incorrect settings, which is probably more realistic.

the other aspect of if one ship in the fleet spots a ship it should report it to the admiral, its a difficult one, in real life this would happen, but would it remove the chances of under cover ops taking place. i cant really give a for or against on this one. but probably feel it more realistic if it did inform the admiral. Maybe this option should be placed available on defensive purposes only, IE when you are staying in the one location as a Net, where as if you are moving as someone has already stated the first 10 ships may have moved through, knackering up your battle plan.

Not that ive ever cocked anything up of course, no sirey bob

oh and by the way, message from Bostonian 1: hi mate, ill see you again soon

Sam_Toridan

Seems to me the way to get round this problem is be careful in the way you send your turns in. Make sure your fleet has some high ranking sensor ships and send them first. If they stop anything for battle any following ships will spot them as ships in battle are opaque to sensors.

The fleet issue is too open to abuse as has been pointed out. Never mind just moving huge numbers of warships - a fleet of cargo ships would easily be able to move vast quantities of goods/ground equipment.

I think we have to stick with the current setup and maybe just refine some of the details of how it all works.

HPSimms

The fleet concept is unlikely to help on patrolling any more than the current system does. You cannot atrol with more than one ship as lead (sequence after) and cannot set a processing order after the lead ship so groups working with more than one admiral, with sub groups supporting their own admirals, is probably going to result in a split group if an enemy is encountered on patrol.

As for the not spreading ships amongst players, that is surely an affilation decision and a ship building player that hogs all the ships built is likely to alienate other players in the aff.

Geoff

Gandolph

Not all affiliations are a Great democracy such as ours

but as you say, this situation would be greatly helped with a process turns order after another position that actually works and some other small tweaks. i suppose they are on the to do list, as with other faults

HPSimms
	One for the Wish List. The current situation that a "fleet" can be set up by having a group of ships support/defend the group lead ship. The main disadvantage is that if the admiral does not scan the enemy everyone sits around doing nothing, regardless of what the rest might have scanned. What I would like is for a Fleet concept to be introduced to the game as a data item containing ships and some rules for how the fleet behaves:- Method of creating a Fleet (2 or more ships) Method of appointing/changing a command ship for an existing fleet Method for ships to join or leave an existing fleet, to allow multi player participation in the same fleet. Rules for fleet:- Fleet members always scan each other if together at the same location. If one ship in the fleet scans a potential enemy the admiral's enemy lists are checked and a battle situation is triggered. Move the fleet as a whole on the lead ships orders. (Should only include fleet members present at the same location). Geoff
Frabby
	I generally comply with the wish (this way the IMP would lose far more of their scouts, greetings to the Captain of the Bostonian 1 from me ;-), but I can see one problem for which I cannot see a suitable solution: Ships move one after another. If the 11th ship out of a fleet of 20 ships scans an enemy on the way, then the first 10 ships of the fleet will already have passed by and only the remaining 9 ships will have their lists triggered, assuming they are set "on patrol". No fleet setting can call the other ships back. The only possible solution would be to use a new position type that moves the ships as a coherent unit, but Mica has discarded this idea. The reasons against Fleet positions are at least as good as the reasons for.
Dan Reed
	The largest reason against fleets, is that it acts against the need to spread positions out amongst players due to the logistics of running them all. The solution to your specific problem would be for the flagship of the fleet (ie. the admiral) to be the sensor ship in the fleet - plus a large number of engines and defences of course. The admiral is then directing the fleet more than shooting himself... Dan
CNF_PD
	Shooting himself.. thats a new low for the Imperial admirals <grin> Just kidding... Spoke to Mica about this at the bristol meet, whilst everyone would like this to be implemented with fleet positions etc.. it is frought with lots of potential problems such as that ships move one after the other and not together (thus causing problems with a fleet position checking things in the same location for enemy lists), you could potentially have half the fleet go through without stopping and the other half stop... Summary just on a simple level there but it had been considered but as I understood is not a simple thing to implement properly. Nevertheless its on my wish list too Cheers, Ewan
Gandolph
	i initially thought in favour of the fleet idea, but having heard both sides of the argument, realise this may cause problems with the spreading of ships to new players. In theory the people building them would just add them to the current fleet turn causing them no extra loss of real time and control, meaning you would never pass the ship on. This also means it takes the "cock up" factor out of the game. as a full fleet will turn up under the proposed new system where and when it is supposed to, under the current rules there is the "real" risk of certain squadrons not turning up when supposed to or with incorrect settings, which is probably more realistic. the other aspect of if one ship in the fleet spots a ship it should report it to the admiral, its a difficult one, in real life this would happen, but would it remove the chances of under cover ops taking place. i cant really give a for or against on this one. but probably feel it more realistic if it did inform the admiral. Maybe this option should be placed available on defensive purposes only, IE when you are staying in the one location as a Net, where as if you are moving as someone has already stated the first 10 ships may have moved through, knackering up your battle plan. Not that ive ever cocked anything up of course, no sirey bob oh and by the way, message from Bostonian 1: hi mate, ill see you again soon
Sam_Toridan
	Seems to me the way to get round this problem is be careful in the way you send your turns in. Make sure your fleet has some high ranking sensor ships and send them first. If they stop anything for battle any following ships will spot them as ships in battle are opaque to sensors. The fleet issue is too open to abuse as has been pointed out. Never mind just moving huge numbers of warships - a fleet of cargo ships would easily be able to move vast quantities of goods/ground equipment. I think we have to stick with the current setup and maybe just refine some of the details of how it all works.
HPSimms
	The fleet concept is unlikely to help on patrolling any more than the current system does. You cannot atrol with more than one ship as lead (sequence after) and cannot set a processing order after the lead ship so groups working with more than one admiral, with sub groups supporting their own admirals, is probably going to result in a split group if an enemy is encountered on patrol. As for the not spreading ships amongst players, that is surely an affilation decision and a ship building player that hogs all the ships built is likely to alienate other players in the aff. Geoff
Gandolph
	Not all affiliations are a Great democracy such as ours but as you say, this situation would be greatly helped with a process turns order after another position that actually works and some other small tweaks. i suppose they are on the to do list, as with other faults