Does anyone apart from me have a problem when evaluating the value of a unique trade goods on various markets? The problem arise when Im looking for trade goods that I want to sell to the local population at my starbase. Certain items are described in Clay's Trade Sheet, while others may be mentioned in the market message where it's sold. If not, is there any way to find out how much it would be worth at my starbase, without issuing a tech manual?
One simple solution would be to make all items sold on the public market public info. That would enable everyone to issue tech manuals for the items they're interested in, and the resourceful script hacker could surely extract the local value of all trade goods.
There may be reasons why this is a bad idea, but the pros and cons could be weighed against each other.
Something along these lines would improve the trade aspects of the game, which I think is needed.
Cheers,
/Erik, AFT
Geoff
There are certain affiliations, like the AFT who have on there "buy" markets items that have never been sold. They found out about them purely by issueing "speculative" TM requests.
Now they have got lucky they want the info to become common knowledge. Personally I do not think they should have that info in the first place.
This is actually irrelevant to the matter in question. The point is that if an item is not common knowledge, you _cannot_ get a tech manual for it (unless you own the item or its blueprint, or someone else transfers you the knowledge). Thus there are items for sale on open markets that I cannot purchase through my markets, as they are not common knowledge and so I cannot issue any order relating to them. This is the problem that we would like to address.
Richard
AFT
If you don't want the item public knowledge, then olny sell it on the Private market...
Of course, there are potential problems with this: AFT sell me (privately) their secret recepie for Bolognase, and then I sell it on the open market, making it public knowledge.....
Personally, I'm happy with the current system, but wouldn't object to some tweeking.
| QUOTE (Clay @ Sep 1 2004, 10:24 PM) |
| I agree that it does seem a little strange. If you don't want the item public knowledge, then olny sell it on the Private market... Of course, there are potential problems with this: AFT sell me (privately) their secret recepie for Bolognase, and then I sell it on the open market, making it public knowledge..... Personally, I'm happy with the current system, but wouldn't object to some tweeking. |
The system was designed so that there would have to be player interaction with respect to restricted information. If you discover an item and do not know what it is about, then surely, your investigation requires you to contact the player who is selling the item.
Spoon feeding information degrades its value - at least that is my opinion.
| QUOTE |
| If not, is there any way to find out how much it would be worth at my starbase, without issuing a tech manual? |
Ask the player selling the items in question to give you a few samples.
E.g. I want to buy a capellan unique for 10 times its base value with my starbase in the detinus periphery? This would make trade a bit easier, since you dont need to add 1000 of different uniques to your market in order to attract the local merchant.
| QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Sep 2 2004, 05:52 PM) | ||||
The system was designed so that there would have to be player interaction with respect to restricted information. If you discover an item and do not know what it is about, then surely, your investigation requires you to contact the player who is selling the item. Spoon feeding information degrades its value - at least that is my opinion.
Ask the player selling the items in question to give you a few samples. |
Not sure why you picked on me there Mica.... I think my post was miss interpreted by you....
I was stating a simple reason AGAINST the idea of all items become public knowledge as soon as it's placed on an open market - even stuff you wanted kept private would very soon become public (some git is bound to re-sell your secret recipie!)
Like I said,
| QUOTE |
| Personally, I'm happy with the current system, but wouldn't object to some tweeking. |
Meaning I don't think it's broke...
I dunno.... try and agree with the GM and he attacks me! Must be habbit....
| QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Sep 2 2004, 07:52 AM) |
| The system was designed so that there would have to be player interaction with respect to restricted information. If you discover an item and do not know what it is about, then surely, your investigation requires you to contact the player who is selling the item. |
Hi Mica,
I agree with you regarding restricted information. My point is that I don't think the value of unique trade items put on the public market should be restricted information. Since the idea with putting things on the public market is to get people to buy it, why not make the value at source public knowledge? Or even better, let the starbase owner issue an order that will list the local value for all trade items sold on the market? Or something like Brian propose?
| QUOTE | ||
Ask the player selling the items in question to give you a few samples. |
I've tried that. I've provided samples myself. It doesn't work. Lots of people who play Phoenix are married, have kids, have a full time job/study, etc etc. We don't have that much time to spend on the game. And when we have the time, we explore, issue SAs, combat the bad guys, build our starbases, perform research etc. Asking for samples is not that sexy (issue PA, send ship, pickup, issue TM, find out that the other bastard wants more than 50% of my local value
, bring it back and sell it to local population, make 5k profit).Player interaction to me means trading ships, blueprints, quantum jump engines, negotiating peace treaties and access to systems, rules discussions, convincing DTR that my ship accidently entered a forbidden OQ and should not be pulverized, pubmeets, negotiating bulk deals, helping new players, planning war on FCN
etc. This is what makes Phoenix a good game. Having trouble with unique trade items is....well, you get my point. So please, consider my proposal as an idea how to improve the game, not critisism against you, David or design intentions.Cheers,
/Erik, AFT
| QUOTE (Erik @ Sep 2 2004, 11:16 AM) | ||||
Hi Mica, I agree with you regarding restricted information. My point is that I don't think the value of unique trade items put on the public market should be restricted information. Since the idea with putting things on the public market is to get people to buy it, why not make the value at source public knowledge? Or even better, let the starbase owner issue an order that will list the local value for all trade items sold on the market? Or something like Brian propose?
I've tried that. I've provided samples myself. It doesn't work. Lots of people who play Phoenix are married, have kids, have a full time job/study, etc etc. We don't have that much time to spend on the game. And when we have the time, we explore, issue SAs, combat the bad guys, build our starbases, perform research etc. Asking for samples is not that sexy (issue PA, send ship, pickup, issue TM, find out that the other bastard wants more than 50% of my local value , bring it back and sell it to local population, make 5k profit).Player interaction to me means trading ships, blueprints, quantum jump engines, negotiating peace treaties and access to systems, rules discussions, convincing DTR that my ship accidently entered a forbidden OQ and should not be pulverized, pubmeets, negotiating bulk deals, helping new players, planning war on FCN etc. This is what makes Phoenix a good game. Having trouble with unique trade items is....well, you get my point. So please, consider my proposal as an idea how to improve the game, not critisism against you, David or design intentions.Cheers, /Erik, AFT |
Personally, I wouldn't want that kind of info made available without a little effort made. After all, when you see a new product in RL shops, you don't necessarily know straight away everything about it, eg the ingredients, how much it cost to make etc, or even if the "folks back home" will like it, unless you investigate it a little.
If I notice a new unique on the public market, I usually issue a TM - most of the time it works but on occasions, the info is restricted and I get charged 100 stellars. I don't mind this, after all, someone has paid RL cash to get this unique and if I want info on it, then I will have to buy some or get a sample. (that's if it's in a system I can enter..
)Or even better, during your player interaction, trade info on uniques/TMs as well as all the other stuff that you mentioned?
Cheers
weenie
| QUOTE (Erik @ Sep 2 2004, 11:16 AM) |
| Player interaction to me means trading ships, blueprints, quantum jump engines, negotiating peace treaties and access to systems, rules discussions, convincing DTR that my ship accidently entered a forbidden OQ and should not be pulverized, pubmeets, negotiating bulk deals, helping new players, planning war on FCN etc. This is what makes Phoenix a good game /Erik, AFT |
War with the FCN???? Tweeet what have we done to deserve that?? Okay, okay, everyone likes us, but thats not a reason to start a war.. :-)
Start selling at nice prices also, then you will have also lots of friends..
There should be an order for this in the Editor - Issue Apology To DTR For Violating No-Fly Zone, with a tick-box for 'extra grovelling', and another for 'include $10k bribe to relevant authorities'.
| QUOTE (Jerusalem @ Sep 2 2004, 07:31 PM) |
| "convincing DTR that my ship accidently entered a forbidden OQ and should not be pulverized" There should be an order for this in the Editor - Issue Apology To DTR For Violating No-Fly Zone, with a tick-box for 'extra grovelling', and another for 'include $10k bribe to relevant authorities'. |
You're a genius! Please can you implement this asap Mica. You could also add a drop box for how big a bribe you want to give. 5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k, 200k, 1 million ;-)
Nik
That's how to trade