However, there was one intriguing idea in there which (in my humble opinion) would be an absolutely great improvement to the game.
Currently, new players are seeded into a random affiliation. The idea is that the affiliation(s) will help their recruits find their place in the game, train them, kit them out, etc. The reality is unfortunately far from that. While I can confirm the following for the DTR only, I am fairly sure that it applies to all affiliations across the board:
Affiliations are swarmed by "new players" who are anonymously playing Courier positions. They have full access to the affiliation data bank, the DTR therefore has even discontinued using AFF data and any important/sensitive data is given to dedicated players via their political. The anonymous Couriers carry the affiliation tag but do sometimes not even try to fit in. In theory, they could drag their affiliation into a war. There are even (unconfirmed) rumours of players who start anonymous startups in several affiliations to spy them out. The result is that those newbies are generally mistrusted and most of the time, since they don't answer to emails or in-game messages, they are not worth the time spent on recruiting/training them. The whole Phoenix new player recruiting system suffers from that.
Now here comes my suggestion for a completely reworked new player setup, I call it the Training Grounds:
Reactivate the Trainee (TRN) affiliation from BSE, and create a training area (Training Grounds periphery) of two or three new "virtual" systems: Newbian (2), Trainee (5) and Academy (6), all within 1 jump distance from each other. The planets in these systems are extremely poor regarding ores and resources so that it would not be feasible for players to build outposts or starbases here (they are not supposed to anyways!).
Academy resembles a fairly typical star system with a few garden planets in the inner rings, gas giants and cold rock worlds in the outer rings. It contains a number of GM run EEM starbases which buy and sell a number of items, ores and trade goods.
Trainee is full of space hazzards (nebulae, asteroid fields, etc.) and contains only inhospitable dead rock worlds and asteroids. Some EEM outposts and perhaps some opportunity for players to toy around with outposts.
Newbian is another fairly typical system, similar to Academy but with fewer worlds and only one base. Its most prominent feature is a wormhole that links to all affiliation home systems of Phoenix (Capellan, Darkfold, Venice, Twilight, Acropolis, Forlorn Hope, Solo, Leonis, Flagra, etc.)
During startup, new players are invariably seeded into the TRN affiliation and begin at the EEM starbase Genesis in Academy.
The TRN startup message should contain a few GM plotlines like we had in BSE, to be followed up via free special actions. No involvement from affiliations or other players (except TRN) is required at this stage. As the missions, actions and results are bound to be identical for most of the new players this should require little if any GM attention, but will hook players to the use of special actions right from the start.
Possible missions could be:
- Hunt down a (GM run) pirate ship in Delta12 of Newbian (battle mission).
A weakly armed PIRate Courier to show the basics of space combat. Reseeded when lost to players. Smart players might buy troops and board the ship instead of destroying it.
- Investigate why we lost contact with mining outpost 12345 in Trainee (exploration/scouting mission).
Mapping the moon will highlight a debris sector. The outpost was destroyed in an asteroid impact as special actions will reveal.
- Insert an undercover police officer (agent) into starbase 23456 and find out if they are really exploiting drugs with their resource complexes (agent mission).
- Retrieve a shipload of Rare Earth Elements from outpost 34567 in Trainee, security code TAKE, and sell them at EEM Genesis. In case you wonder about the high buying price, did we mention that the outpost is located in a nebula so better get shields for your ship or pray that the revenue will pay the patches (spiced up cargo mission).
You get the idea. As a reward for those missions, players get money, items, small ships or additional missions. They also have the opportunity to trade between the various EEM starbases all along to generate cash and get a feeling for cargo (including live or perishable), and also to refit their ships with gear required for certain missions. There are no complex modules available so players have no chance to set up starbases or outposts of their own in the Training Grounds. They could perhaps capture an outpost but re-capture by the EEM or other players in pay by EEM is for sure.
Ultimately, they should purchase and install a "Graduation Module" for 50,000 $ which, technically, is a stargate key that will move their ship through the Newbian stargate to a startup system of their choice. When the player moves his ship(s) through the stargate and joins an affiliation, IC he has graduated from his affiliation's space academy. His actions in the Training Grounds have no IC impact on Phoenix, and he can be of any race or affiliation.
If and when they have achieved this the new players know the basics of the game and are ready for the real thing. Based on this knowledge they can judge the strenths and weaknesses of the various affiliations and consciously make a choice for an affiliation. The player gets the affiliation he wants; the affiliation gets a dedicated player who has learned the game rules and already shown dedication to the game.
The Training Grounds would also be a good substitute for players who don't want to be involved in the Phoenix politics. It is their free choice to graduate to the real game at any time, perhaps immediately if their affiliation buys them out, or to remain in the training area and play the game there.
NB It doesn't have to be TRN. The players could also be IND, or actually join an affiliation. In the training area, affiliation has no meaning.
When I joined it was nice to see a universe around with things happening, rather than some area where i'd have to do 'training tasks' before i could join the game properly.
Besides affilations generally give new players little tasks like that to do anyway, which help the player feel they are havn't some effect in the universe.
I do however agree with the not joining affialtions by default , although then you have a "well what race do we start the player as" issue.
The other point is that no new player would be forced to play the "Training Grounds" game above. You can contact an affiliation, join them, they transfer you 50,000 stellars, the next day you refit your Courier, enter the wormhole and play away.
But to do this, you must have *chosen* and *contacted* your affiliation. Big difference!
I believe that 99% of the new players are simply overtaxed by the complexity of the system, and awed away from Phoenix unless established players have recruited them and personally guide them. The Training Grounds allow players to get into the game at their own pace.
Make it so...
Another system is needed and the TRN option, with or without the training systems, sounds like a good answer. A few simple missions to give a feeling for the game system and encouraement to advertise their prescence so they can be inundated with recruitig propaganda
.Geoff
cheers
weenie
| QUOTE (Frabby @ Nov 23 2004, 11:36 AM) |
| The other point is that no new player would be forced to play the "Training Grounds" game above. You can contact an affiliation, join them, they transfer you 50,000 stellars, the next day you refit your Courier, enter the wormhole and play away. But to do this, you must have *chosen* and *contacted* your affiliation. Big difference! |
Fair point, didn't think of that. Although i think just joining them to our neutral affilation (TRN/IND whatever) is better than givning them the choice on startup, as at that point they probably don't know much about the game, unless introduced by a freind.
Well i'm all for this idea then; maybe 50k is, as steve said, too much but that can be worked out i'm sure.
How about things like what race they'd start at, or maybe they could choose when then left the TRN zone, ie lose the training crew and get there own type thing? Not that there is any numerical difference between the races (a mistake imo) but it would be strange say a human crew ship joining DEN?
| QUOTE (ptb @ Nov 23 2004, 02:08 PM) |
| How about things like what race they'd start at, or maybe they could choose when then left the TRN zone |
In the TRN zone who cares, they are changed to the right race when they join an aff/IND. (You could even have a Newbian race especially for that purpose
| QUOTE (Bluemoon @ Nov 23 2004, 02:07 PM) |
| I like the TRN idea but not having them in a separate area. However I can see unscrupulus people using TRN vessels for covert actions if they are given full acess everywhere. What about having them in the main game but limiting them to a certain systems until they choose an AFF or go IND. |
We've had that exact problem in BSE. TRN positions were untouchable and could be abused, and the DTR is the only affiliation ever (to my knowledge) who were allowed to attack and subsequently destroy a TRN ship because it was obviously using its TRN status to snoop around in restricted DTR territory where TRNs normally wouldn't know how to get there.
The Training Grounds area was designed specifically as a small area that inexperienced players can easily grasp. Also, it is designed to keep the TRN players apart from the "real" game board where they might be destroyed out of the blue from the very first day, never knowing what hit them.
If a TRN has either earned enough money (and experience on the way) to "graduate" or if an affiliation has paid 50k $ towards his recruitment then he is either fit for the game by himself, or has an affiliation that will back him.
| QUOTE (ptb @ Nov 23 2004, 01:08 PM) |
| but it would be strange say a human crew ship joining DEN? |
Not that strange. My original courier is manned by humans but they have no problems working for peanuts for the DEN.
A brief detailing of what each aff is all about should be enough for newbies to decide which aff they want to join.
I knew nothing about the game before I joined and had only ever heard of the DTR, so resorted to checking out the KJC website and choosing which I wanted to be.
cheers
weenie
That of existing players wanting to start up a brand new aff without the bigger,older affs leaning on them?
| QUOTE (DEN_weenie @ Nov 23 2004, 02:31 PM) |
| Not that strange. My original courier is manned by humans but they have no problems working for peanuts for the DEN. |
What is it they say - pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Nik
| QUOTE (Bluemoon @ Nov 23 2004, 01:07 PM) |
| I like the TRN idea but not having them in a separate area. However I can see unscrupulus people using TRN vessels for covert actions if they are given full acess everywhere. What about having them in the main game but limiting them to a certain systems until they choose an AFF or go IND. |
Just give them access to all public known systems.. You can also add the "do not fly zones" we discussed some time ago and make sure that all TRN won't be able to get there... Also I do think that those tractor beams in DTR space would be more then able to handle small vessels <g>
The only reason why my ships survived my first mission was because I bothered to reply to emails from my affl and they warned me not to enter IMP space.. An greedy guy like me, would have probably went to the nearest highprice location to sell off my Kastorian Delicacies at an fair price.
Also, we might suggest giving him a somewhat less expensive ship, I am more thinking about an 20/25 Light vessel.. That one can have at least some 600-800mu cargo.
just give the TRN aff the info about public systems, so they cant access those private or secret ones. Fine all affs, who try to give TRN aff access to those
If its possible, setup some new starbase/outpost commands, that will only help TRN. What i mean by this is, if i want to help TRN, i dont want everyone else to come and steal me blind
Instead of a market sell, then it could be a TRN market sell, TRN market buy, TRN pickup at outposts etc, which they can an aff could access, the TRN should at their first turn be informed about all such deals and GM aka mica have to give them the info about how they do things still, other deals like GPI planets etc can be gained from affs, perhaps a command, which says which affs could use someone to do GPI as well. Then the TRN players know there is lots of missions they could begin.
Each aff that contibutes to the TRN missions, should have a TRN contact person, so the TRN can email them about the missions and information about how to do the mission or missions.
2 systems for TRNs (to practice jumps and to shoot aliens etc) with a one way link back to the Peripheries.
training missions are a must though and be specifically designed for the new players to get used to the orders. Hints and tips along the way should be given. Give them the option to run special action turns if they want to.
Training scenario could be to find GPI a planet in one of the secotrs or perhaps buy some trade item from a GM base.
They need to understand the movement order to then let them look at other orders in the game.
Andy
Would the switch have medium to long term effects on game balance? For example, if I hadn't have been seeded to the IMP I doubt that I would have joined them, as on paper they did not appear as 'sexy' as some other affiliations. As it is, I've very much enjoyed being part of the affiliation - but the question is, would the powerbase of an affiliation be over reliant on the ability of the Affiliation to sell itself?...and if so, could this see a disproportionate number of players join those affiliations with the biggest, shiniest ships (for example). Obviously the game attracts people of varying taste, but from a personal perspective I think the seeding system certainly opened my eyes to playing the game from an unexpected angle.
Secondly, if you leave it up to new players to decide for themselves who they join, will it affect the number of new players that become active, paying, players? Whilst I appreciate that a fair number of seeded players currently fail to reply to the initial emails from a PD, at least there is some sort of instant welcome and reference point to the game. Surely player interaction is the biggest selling point - and that with the TRN position you risk losing this? (- does a whole host of recruiting letters encourage a new player to get involved, or simply confuse him/her?)
On a related point, if you have a new system for new players and if there is a fair number of TRN positions that drop out (basically players who after a couple of turns decide the game isn't for them), does a system of static TRN ships sell the game?....and furthermore wouldn't it be more intriguing for new players to have their ship scan the range of affiliations as they move around? (..which if stuck in their own system they may only see the odd ship as it joins its new Aff)
Apologies if this appears a pretty negative post, but just felt I should air a few concerns...
| QUOTE (Duckworth-Lewis @ Nov 23 2004, 06:19 PM) |
| (- does a whole host of recruiting letters encourage a new player to get involved, or simply confuse him/her?) |
Perhaps a player set flag when they are ready to be known to the universe? Like the anonymous position flag. Toggle it on or off if you want to solicit a raft of recruitment messges, or not.
As for "sexy" it depends what a player wants. Sell to your own strengths there are all sorts of players and all sorts of affs for them. And to be totally ruthless (for argument's sake), if some affs don't survive isn't that part of natural selection?
| QUOTE (Duckworth-Lewis @ Nov 23 2004, 06:19 PM) |
| Apologies if this appears a pretty negative post, but just felt I should air a few concerns... |
These are all good points. There is no easy answer to them, because the answer depends on how you anticipate new players to think and act. This also means there is no right or wrong here.
I’ll try to answer your points from my point of view though.
First argument: Game balance
I think a player will be more satisfied with his affiliation if he actually chose it himself on the basis of some self-attained knowledge and contacting players in other affs. That will also allow players to chose the affiliation they think suits them best. And by affiliation I do not so much refer to any in-game resources (every aff can provide pretty much anything to their recruits nowadays) as to the people playing it, the team behind the game affiliation.
Second argument: Player interaction
I get the feeling that quite a lot of players actually *want* to be left alone. Just look at the recent boom of IND players and single-player-affiliations. This became possible as many positions are now free to run. Back in BSE virtually every turn cost money, and only well organized teams of players could really achieve something.
I still like the team thing better. With too many single-player affiliations the game might deteriorate into something like Master of Orion – an excellent empire building game but nothing more.
And finally, TRNs will be able to check the forum or this message board as well as the KJC site and the many homepages. They can take a look around at what’s there, perhaps initiate contact to some people. But they can do it at a pace they choose. The Training Grounds is there to help them find the information they seek, not to withold TRNs from player interaction.
Third argument: Inactive TRN positions
Yes, the Training Grounds will become littered with inactive TRN positions but the same goes for recruiting starbases in Yank. I don’t see this as a problem, it’s bound to happen and on the positive side it shows how many people try the game.
As for not seeing all the other affiliations in the Training Grounds, well, yes and no. They are not actually there because the whole idea of the Training Grounds is to protect the new players from the more predatory (the proverbial FGZ newbie happily flying into a DTR Restricted Territory…). And then there’s all the recruitment messages, homepages, player interaction going on. It is really hard to miss once you start looking into the game.
I am 100% convinced that the Training Grounds will boost recruitment for the game!
Then I read it. Smart idea.
Having the choice of doing the missions or not is a great idea. Obviously any SA-type actions would have to be free.
I do think that they should have the option of signing up to a specific affiliation on sign-up if they want to. Then they can get help/support during their trainning and hopefully will get eased into affiliation life.
Rich
Andy
I may also need native english speakers with a knack for writing/storytelling to proof-read my stuff, and generally it may be a good idea to have some more experienced players "test" the Training Grounds once they are finished, to find possible bugs, loopholes, omissions etc.
Dan
You can email me on woozywyvern@btinternet.com, msn messanger the same.
Mark
Sleeps With Dragons
Mohache
| QUOTE (ThomasKolter @ May 15 2005, 01:13 PM) |
| I was wondering will AFF's get profiiles out and get to place a recruiter in the TRN areas to try and get players to join them. May I suggest AFF get to put diplomatic starbases in there where players can meet the AFF's and talk to a representative via e-mail. |
Actually, it'd be really fantastic if affs could supply specific training missions of their own. We in the Brotherhood could have some kind of pilgrimage mission, for example.
Lord Lawrence Scrimm
CIA Intelligence Director
aka
Rich Fanning
| QUOTE |
| Sounds good to me. CIA Training Mission: Sabotage the FET Trainee Recruiting Center... Lord Lawrence Scrimm CIA Intelligence Director aka Rich Fanning |
FET Training mission:Steal the CIA Trainee Recruiting Centre
... what?
| QUOTE (Pride_Motnahp @ May 17 2005, 05:27 PM) |
| FEL training mission: find a nice warm place to curl up and take a cat nap in. |
Don't forget to get high on Catnip MK II (99999) first.
| QUOTE (Archangel @ May 18 2005, 01:29 PM) | ||
Don't forget to get high on Catnip MK II (99999) first. |
the most important thing is to find a nice scratching post.