First some of the affiliation links don't work, how am I supposed to pick one when there are no links. If an affiliation wants people advertise and offer a clear perk. AFT posted that I get a bigger ship right off the bat if I want it, and even if I don't they are neutral and seem to favor making friends not enemies. I did research on several before choosing one I liked. It helped I played AFT the last time and had fun.
Second offer clear PERKS the FET didn't clearly state what I get for joining them. The AFT offered a large trading ship from two options IF I want one on their website. So chose the AFT over the FET. I don't like guessing and taking chances I want a clear benefit package.
AFT made this easy for me and the others either had links that didn't work or kept their benefits hard to tell, look at the AFT site for ideas on how to recruit newbie's that actually research first.
Third this game is a bit complicated might I suggest a newbie section with all the basic information in one place. Right now its a little spread out.
Perhaps a section on the KJC Phoenix website with all the affiliations and information about what they offer etc would help. You can then link to the actual aff's websites from there. It would certainly bring all the aff's data into once place. Kinda like a recruitment section. Just a thought
| QUOTE |
| Second offer clear PERKS the FET didn't clearly state what I get for joining them. The AFT offered a large trading ship from two options IF I want one on their website. So chose the AFT over the FET. I don't like guessing and taking chances I want a clear benefit package. |
On FET's website there is a section entitled company details.It shows prospective members exactly what to expect if they join FET.
In short we don't give out freebies to new members.It's only after a member has started up their own subsidary company(create a political position)and proved they are willing to put in some hard work that offers of more assets become available.
We have noticed that in the past if we give out to much stuff right away it isn't appreciated as much as the stuff a member has to work for.
FET encourages and rewards hard work and there is plenty of opportunity to climb the corporate ladder.
A FET example if they offered a chance to match funds to get a better ship lets say for every 1 Stellar they match 1 Stellar it might have tipped the balance to them. I'm never asking for free things if they are offered fine but help in getting better is always a plus. Thats why I didn't want to be IND so I have an in-game family
I also know another player who has the card details lodged with KJC, who issues a SA every time he wants credit added (free of charge...you wouldn't get charged for the SA)
Dan
The way I chose an aff originally, and the way I would like to think other players choose one is this:
Use the public information to draw up a *short list*. 3 or 4 affs you really like the sound of (concept/RP/IC wise) then *contact* them and discuss details. You will get a lot more answers if you actually ask some questions, don't expect everything to be handed to you on a plate. You will also find out if your *personality* and general outlook (IC and OOC) suits the leadership of that aff - not such a trivial thing.
Just my opinion in my defence (the DEN is not my Aff (meaning I'm not the PD, I am DEN and always will be as long as I play) but I designed the website...)
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ May 17 2005, 10:06 AM) |
| Perhaps you might also consider that not every aff wants members who only join to get something? Perhaps its a two-way relationship... |
Yes, thats a good point. If a player works well within an aff, then the aff. will help them get as much out of the game as possible. Speaking from my time in the Mohache, I stuck with the aff because I liked ideas and peaceful methods. I was given the opportunity to do things, and as I proved myself more opportunities arose, but I certainly didn't expect to be given a fleet of ships the instant I joined. If you work well within an affiliation, then I am sure the majority (if not all) will help you get the most from the game.
They will also include a HTML starter turn and all startups will be html (Its essentially the text in a table format, no fluffy pictures etc). However it does look a lot neater.
Yes there needs to be some starter rules but thats easier said than done.
Ok, this may come across as biased, seeing as I'm a member of DEN but I joined the aff in the very same way that Steve has described. I checked out the website, liked what I saw and signed up. I had never played BSE before.
I was not immediately handed freebies, nor did I expect them. Instead, I was given some tasks/missions to complete and once I had shown my loyalty, willingness and ability to work for the aff, I was rewarded with my own small fleet of ships and later my own base.
So, it's not all about affs offering carrots on sticks - it works both ways.
cheers
weenie
(also the perk of being a large cat decended life form that can cough up hairballs whenever i want tipped the balance)
| QUOTE (Pride_Motnahp @ May 17 2005, 03:25 PM) |
| (also the perk of being a large cat decended life form that can cough up hairballs whenever i want tipped the balance) |
Remind me to talk to Mica about the Furball Cannon as a concept
Dan
As for the starter rules there are no simple examples on how to move ships and trade- I emailed my AFF folk for help figuring this out. I think you have to have a real simple start page with examples of how the basic things are done and advice.
Another thing the sign-up has a drop-box to select an AFF and I didn't get the AFT up front even though thats what I selected. If they don't use it why the hell allow a drop box selection? I spend over a week going through the AFF and chose the AFT ruoing out the others. The FET was a choice possible but I didn't want to be told what to do just get some help and advice, maybe a refit loan and then trade. So the AFT was my choice. But no they gave me some alien tree-huggers as an AFF, I was a bit upset over that.
| QUOTE (Sleeps With Dragons @ May 17 2005, 11:46 AM) | ||
Yes, thats a good point. If a player works well within an aff, then the aff. will help them get as much out of the game as possible. Speaking from my time in the Mohache, I stuck with the aff because I liked ideas and peaceful methods. I was given the opportunity to do things, and as I proved myself more opportunities arose, but I certainly didn't expect to be given a fleet of ships the instant I joined. If you work well within an affiliation, then I am sure the majority (if not all) will help you get the most from the game. |
A point what if you like the idea of only running one ship? I'm in this because its free and I get to role-play with a bunch of nice people. But I do suggest AFF's help out new players at least modify their initial ship with common items and maybe AFF Technology. Plus maintenance to fix it up before they go off to trade or whatever. And it does depend on the player- some like myself want the ability to act like an IND but under an AFF for some helpful assistance. And face it IND have problems without someone looking out for them
| QUOTE (ThomasKolter @ May 18 2005, 02:11 AM) |
| A point what if you like the idea of only running one ship? I'm in this because its free and I get to role-play with a bunch of nice people. But I do suggest AFF's help out new players at least modify their initial ship with common items and maybe AFF Technology. Plus maintenance to fix it up before they go off to trade or whatever. And it does depend on the player- some like myself want the ability to act like an IND but under an AFF for some helpful assistance. And face it IND have problems without someone looking out for them |
Thomas, no offence but you aren't really qualified to comment on what other affs do or don't do. All DEN players, for an example I know about, are routinely given a refit of their starting ship (it's kind of an initiation). Weenie, who commented above is essentially a trader, and a good one (what's that you say, DEN are not a trading Aff? No we aren't but all affs need traders, perhaps a trader in a non-trading aff is a better challenge with bigger rewards? Something to think about eh?).
Weenie was happy to run only ships and we respected that, giving her some of the biggest ships in the game (by the way) to trade from. (Later she decided she wanted a starbase so we give her one of our highest profile bases and one of only two DEN markets.) However, there was no pressure on her to do or run anything she didn't want to. The DEN, or AFT for that matter, are not the only Affs to help their players, and not all Affs expect you to spend money.
You want to be AFT, that's great, I'm happy for you, it's a great Aff, but please stop using them to compare to all other affs - affs that you know next to nothing about, except what's on a website, sometimes information that's *deliberately* vague.
I'm damn sure I saw a note saying the RIP would give me:
200,000 stellars,
5 Quantum Jump Drives
10 Quantum Cloaks
1 100 heavy hulled battle cruiser
1 100 light hulled merchant vessel
5 outposts
1 starbase
1 partridge in a pear tree
Am i too late to claim it all now?
GTDoug.
| QUOTE (gtdoug @ May 18 2005, 09:02 AM) |
| 1 partridge in a pear tree |
Is that partridge Life or Trade lifeform?
weenie
Most affs will have some kind of "generic" package for newer players, but if you take the time to talk to an aff you'll find most would be willing to discuss your personal goals and develop a more personalised package to help you meet your goals - even if it's not written on their website.
Want to talk to an aff but can't figure out how because of dead websites?
Starting to play the game goes a long way towards building the right contacts because affs can (if they wish) try to market themselves to newly joined players, which is a great place to start up a conversation with an aff's recruiter or to spark interest in an aff you hadn't considered.
Alternately there's always the Yahoo! group or the IRC channel - phoenix is a pretty social game where everyone (eventually) gets to know everyone else so if you can't get hold of the person you want to speak to directly there's a good chance someone can give you an email or IM address for them.
- Tony
ps. If you don't like the aff you've been seeded into then the "Leave affiliation" and "Join affliation" commands are probably worth looking at once you're in a position to be able to convert safely.
| QUOTE |
| The DEN, or AFT for that matter, are not the only Affs to help their players, and not all Affs expect you to spend money. |
Hello Thomas,
The quotation above is absolutely true. It is quite possible to play this game and have a few ships under your direct command and achieve reasonable levels of success.
However, this game as you must know being an ex BSE player is addictive. It is not long before you want to try more things, or become more involved in the decision processes of whatever affiliation you are a member of.
Running ships without a political position though does come with a serious level of risk and some natural constraints.
an example constraint is:
Voting rights are only afforded to those who have a political position. This is a game mechanic not a restriction imposed by any affiliation.
I believe it is a very rare individual indeed if that person remained fully satisfied with the limited aspects of pure trading activity for more than a few months. Trade is a very time consuming enterprise and to show growth in your financial state is a very long and at times a tedious process.
As for serious risk:
There is a certain very active and competent individual known as Pirate Large (aka Pirate Slimeball) who has successfully nicked one or more ships from most if not all affiliations. In the case of players with no political entity, all of your cash holding are forever carried by you ship/s. Generally, at least in my experience, your cash is carried by your start up ship.
Should Pirate Large capture this ship, you have no ship, no cash and a lot of egg on your face. I know, having first hand experience of this.
A political position is in practice an entity which manages and is also the repository of your finances and should be stashed away in a nice fat safe starbase. The turn report, which is provided weekly for the political position, enables a player to easily collate the state of his or her finances, and state of his or her fleet or other holdings.
It is also an error to believe it possible that any player can do his/her own thing independantly of other game participants or his/her affiliation and be successful.
It is necessary to develop both in game and out of game relationships with as many other players as possible. In truth, this is what this game is fundamentally founded on. If that interaction is minimal or non-existant you will never realize growth in the game nor derive the more esoteric benefits that are there to be taken. Commitment to the game, your colleagues and opponents is the primary road to success.
May I therefore suggest that you play this game and run as many ships as you can. Take what pleasure you can, but do this to discover what this game really has to offer rather then play because it is a free past time. Once you have got to grips with the essential fundamentals to not be afraid to take the plunge.
Get yourself a political (if you can afford it). I am certain that you will not regret this decision.
Archangel
AFT Council Member
| QUOTE (Winters @ May 18 2005, 01:43 PM) |
| Want to talk to an aff but can't figure out how because of dead websites? |
Good point and also don't forget that we are a community of Phoenix players above and beyond the Affiliation boundaries.
We all understand how the random seeding works for new players. I would be extremely surprised if your starting aff, whoever they are, does not actually help you *leave* if you feel they do not suit you - they will answer your basic question and still give you contacts for the affs of your *choice*.
| QUOTE (Archangel @ May 18 2005, 02:24 PM) |
| Get yourself a political (if you can afford it). I am certain that you will not regret this decision. |
You also get another two free ships thrown in when you get a political.
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ May 18 2005, 04:00 PM) |
| You also get another two free ships thrown in when you get a political. |
Not bad ships either, although it's a shame they can't be replaced with affilation equivlents instead of the generic ones.
| QUOTE (Archangel @ May 18 2005, 01:24 PM) | ||
Hello Thomas, The quotation above is absolutely true. It is quite possible to play this game and have a few ships under your direct command and achieve reasonable levels of success. However, this game as you must know being an ex BSE player is addictive. It is not long before you want to try more things, or become more involved in the decision processes of whatever affiliation you are a member of. Running ships without a political position though does come with a serious level of risk and some natural constraints. an example constraint is: Voting rights are only afforded to those who have a political position. This is a game mechanic not a restriction imposed by any affiliation. I believe it is a very rare individual indeed if that person remained fully satisfied with the limited aspects of pure trading activity for more than a few months. Trade is a very time consuming enterprise and to show growth in your financial state is a very long and at times a tedious process. As for serious risk: There is a certain very active and competent individual known as Pirate Large (aka Pirate Slimeball) who has successfully nicked one or more ships from most if not all affiliations. In the case of players with no political entity, all of your cash holding are forever carried by you ship/s. Generally, at least in my experience, your cash is carried by your start up ship. Should Pirate Large capture this ship, you have no ship, no cash and a lot of egg on your face. I know, having first hand experience of this. A political position is in practice an entity which manages and is also the repository of your finances and should be stashed away in a nice fat safe starbase. The turn report, which is provided weekly for the political position, enables a player to easily collate the state of his or her finances, and state of his or her fleet or other holdings. It is also an error to believe it possible that any player can do his/her own thing independantly of other game participants or his/her affiliation and be successful. It is necessary to develop both in game and out of game relationships with as many other players as possible. In truth, this is what this game is fundamentally founded on. If that interaction is minimal or non-existant you will never realize growth in the game nor derive the more esoteric benefits that are there to be taken. Commitment to the game, your colleagues and opponents is the primary road to success. May I therefore suggest that you play this game and run as many ships as you can. Take what pleasure you can, but do this to discover what this game really has to offer rather then play because it is a free past time. Once you have got to grips with the essential fundamentals to not be afraid to take the plunge. Get yourself a political (if you can afford it). I am certain that you will not regret this decision. Archangel AFT Council Member |
I've played American BSE for ten years and even the Play-by-Post version from the U.K. for a year (the limitation of distance was the factor I stopped playing over) so am aware of AFF politics and operations I think. Different does not man alien to me.
Ok this banking money problem there is an easy solution- dock a useless ship at a BIG AFF Star Base and leave it there transfering excess money to it. Attacking it requires attacking the base with a possible war, if they are anything like BSE colonies that is a tall order even for a properly sized FLEET of warships. More than one Pirate could pull off for sure even a crafty well-armed fellow. AFT is as far as I can tell respected and neutral save for pirates and RIP. So I would think my saving ship would be secure?
Anyway since I'll be burning funds to pay off my debt to the AFT and making improvements on my Courier, savings is secondary right now. By doing things myself I only mean't I didn't want to be ordered around- working with others in my AFF is different than being [TOLD] what to do. If they need my help and will reimburse for the minimal costs [crew pay, a proportional share of the maintenance expenses] AFT can have the use of any ship I own (not the banking one when that time comes).
| QUOTE (ThomasKolter @ May 18 2005, 05:23 PM) |
| By doing things myself I only mean't I didn't want to be ordered around- working with others in my AFF is different than being [TOLD] what to do. If they need my help and will reimburse for the minimal costs [crew pay, a proportional share of the maintenance expenses] AFT can have the use of any ship I own (not the banking one when that time comes). |
In my experience, there are very few affs that tell people what to do... in my time of running the FEL, I think I've done that twice - and both times the player in question thanked me for it later...
Dan
| QUOTE (Dan Reed @ May 18 2005, 05:49 PM) | ||
In my experience, there are very few affs that tell people what to do... in my time of running the FEL, I think I've done that twice - and both times the player in question thanked me for it later... Dan |
Yes, have to agree with all the sentiments echoed in the posts above. (Speaking from a Mohache perspective) I have never been 'ordered' to do anything within the Mohache, and now being very active with a political, several starbases and numerous outposts I have never 'ordered' anyone else in the aff to do anything. I have been asked to and asked players to do things, as part as a team and for the good of the aff, but I would be very surprised if anyone out here actually adheres to a strict heirerchy and order system. In my experience in community games, this is usually a very quick way for the man at the top to end up on his own.
| QUOTE (ThomasKolter @ May 18 2005, 06:23 PM) |
| AFT is as far as I can tell respected and neutral save for pirates and RIP. |
And why are the AFT hostile towards the RIP?
RIP PD (yes i know it's off topic, but this is the first i've heard about it)
| QUOTE (Sam_Toridan @ May 18 2005, 04:47 PM) |
| Gotta echo the DEN (and most other affs by the look of things) attitude to new players. We'd rather someone join our aff because the style/roleplay aspect appeals. Compared to that everything else is secondary. Most affs can afford to give players all the ships they want and will accomodate how they want to play the game (from a few free ships to starbases/politicals and all the trimmings). Talk to your affs players and ask questions is the best way to get resources and information. |
Oh. My. God. What are the peripheries coming to, the DEN and CIA agreeing with each other? Oh yeah, this is OOC isn't it
(Which is a perfect example of how our little community works. The DEN are not fond of the CIA, to put it mildly, but DEN players have a lot of respect for CIA players. I'd like to think the reverse is true and I know for a fact it's not restricted to DEN/CIA.)
Basically Thomas, no-one is trying to knock the AFT, but please realise that every player is different and every AFF offers something for someone, otherwise they would not survive (and the game would be very boring indeed!).
What you see as important may not be the same as what other players see as important.
| QUOTE (ptb @ May 19 2005, 08:27 AM) |
| And why are the AFT hostile towards the RIP? |
Hmm... Maybe the AFT aren't so bad after all
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ May 19 2005, 09:15 AM) | ||
Hmm... Maybe the AFT aren't so bad after all |
Thanks steve
Well I knew the Den didn't like us much, but at least they told me that (not that they reply to queries anyway *grumble*)
| QUOTE |
| I know for a fact it's not restricted to DEN/CIA. |
OOC I'd have thought that most people have some kind of respect for most of the others. IC of course we all hate/fear/cheat each other
but thats half the fun. | QUOTE (ptb @ May 19 2005, 09:27 AM) | ||
And why are the AFT hostile towards the RIP? RIP PD (yes i know it's off topic, but this is the first i've heard about it) |
Me 2....
| QUOTE (ptb @ May 19 2005, 08:27 AM) |
| And why are the AFT hostile towards the RIP? |
We aren't.
Richard
AFT PD
well thats good to know can I just come back to the afore-mentioned DEN trader-extraordinaire, Weenie. During a raging battle across the whole of Janth and a small, but intense space battle in the quad of that planet, a lone freighter was seen to fly straight through the battling warships, orbit the planet, avoid the barrage of weapons fire wracking the atmosphere to dock expertly with a hiport, load a hold full of Thorlium, and then fly back through it all again to proceed to the buyer.Anything for a profit. What a trader! AFT eat your heart out!
(All in fun, but perfectly true! I think the DEN need to create some kind of honour just for Weenie!)
| QUOTE |
| As a small aside, because it needs to be said somewhere, and it seems semi-appropriate here can I just come back to the afore-mentioned DEN trader-extraordinaire, Weenie. During a raging battle across the whole of Janth and a small, but intense space battle in the quad of that planet, a lone frieghter was seen to fly straight through the battling warships, orbit the planet, avoid the barrage of weapons fire wracking the atmosphere to dock expertly with a hiport, load a hold full of Thorlium, and then fly back through it all again to proceed to the buyer |
Way to go girl!!!!!
If you ever want to leave the DEN(a fine affiliation by the way)there'll always be a place in FET waiting for you!
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ May 20 2005, 09:22 AM) |
| As a small aside, because it needs to be said somewhere, and it seems semi-appropriate here can I just come back to the afore-mentioned DEN trader-extraordinaire, Weenie. During a raging battle across the whole of Janth and a small, but intense space battle in the quad of that planet, a lone frieghter was seen to fly straight through the battling warships, orbit the planet, avoid the barrage of weapons fire wracking the atmosphere to dock expertly with a hiport, load a hold full of Thorlium, and then fly back through it all again to proceed to the buyer. Anything for a profit. What a trader! AFT eat your heart out! (All in fun, but perfectly true! I think the DEN need to create some kind of honour just for Weenie!) |
Aw shucks - thanks
weenie
Another thing is I had one ship with a Captain and later after unpgrading her to a Merchantman class started a colony, found a nice source of Thorlium and was a nice supplier of the rare ore at a modest price. Plus has a large market some colony made goods (we did ship hull components) and whatever someone wanted to sell as long as it was a large enough amount. Example if a trader had a cargo of something I would normally buy it at a low price to get it off their hands. Also sold acquired starships from certain parties for a commission. This game seems less that and more larger scale, less intimate- if that makes sense. Its different.
There are things I like. The movement system if I figured it out right seems much easier to work with. [We'll find out I did my first movement, jump and sell order for my Kastorian Delicacies.] Another is the price you can't beat FREE for a game to get into it and later can think about a Political Position. Even at a basic level that is cheaper having a fixed price for many positions. And the variety of cargos is interesting, some seems more popular than others. Makes being a trader more challenging.