The changed rules in Phoenix meant that those old ship types had to be replaced by Phoenix models which also altered their statistics. As a result, ships of the same (BSE) type had wildly different stats in Phoenix, including hull type, size and armour.
I have been trying to track down the conversion changes and only come up with the following so far:
EEM Yacht (1) --> Phoenix ship type 760 (5 normal hulls, changed to 10 heavy hulls after conversion)
EEM War Galley (2) --> Phoenix ship type 690 (10 normal hulls)
EEM Light Freighter (3) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Corvette (4) --> Phoenix ship type 710 (10 normal hulls)
EEM Surveyor (5) --> Phoenix ship type 720 (10 normal hulls)
EEM Fast Freighter (6) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Destroyer (7) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Medium Freighter (8) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Survey Cruiser (9) --> Phoenix ship type 610 (25 normal hulls)
EEM Heavy Freighter (10) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Light Cruiser (11) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Heavy Cruiser (12) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Space Liner (13) --> Phoenix ???-
EEM Battle Cruiser (14) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Supra Freighter (15) --> Phoenix ???
GTT Indiaman (16) --> Phoenix ship type 360 (75 light hulls)
DTR/CNF Frigate (17) --> Phoenix ???
DOM Man o' War/Attack Cruiser (18) --> Phoenix ???
CNF Battleship (19) --> Phoenix ship type 150 (100 heavy hulls)
DTR Nebulon (20) --> Phoenix ship type 160 (100 heavy hulls, now "Nebulon JOAT" subtype)
SMS Lugger (21) --> Phoenix ship type 170 (100 light hulls)
RIP Predator (22) --> Phoenix ship type 390 (75 normal hulls)
GTT Behemoth (23) --> Phoenix ship type 180 (100 light hulls)
IMP Patrol Cruiser (24) --> Phoenix ???
SMS Belter (25) --> Phoenix ship type 410 (75 normal hulls)
AFT Free Trader (26) --> Phoenix ship type 420 (75 normal hulls)
SSL Courier (27) --> Phoenix ???
FET Deep Explorer (28) --> Phoenix ship type 430 (75 normal hulls)
CIA Infiltrator (29) --> Phoenix ship type 440 (25 heavy hulls)
BHD Templar (30) --> Phoenix ship type 450 (75 normal hulls)
CIA Runner (31) --> Phoenix ship type 460 (50 heavy hulls)
DEN Wolflord (32) --> Phoenix ???
FGZ Freighter (33) --> Phoenix ???
DEN Wayfarer (34) --> Phoenix ???
FGZ Scout/Scout Explorer/Gunship (35) --> Phoenix ???
FGZ Flagritz Baseship/Baseship (36) --> Phoenix ???
HVE Felucca (37) --> Phoenix ???
BHD Tempest (38) --> Phoenix ship type 210 (100 light hulls)
IMP Ship of the Line (40) --> Phoenix ???
DEN Ranger (41) --> Phoenix ???
DEN Trader (42) --> Phoenix ???
DEN Claw (43) --> Phoenix ???
RIP Nemesis (47) --> Phoenix ship type 260 (100 heavy hulls)
EEM Cygnet (?) --> Phoenix ???
KAS Cog (?) --> Phoenix ship type 570 (50 light hulls)
KAS Galaxy Cruiser (?) --> Phoenix ship type 30 (200 normal hulls)
FET Pioneer (?) --> Phoenix ship type 190 (100 light hulls)
AFT Carrier (?) --> Phoenix ship type 200 (100 light hulls)
AFT Super Carrier (?) --> Phoenix ???
EEM Flagship (?) --> Phoenix ??? (125 heavy hulls)
EEM Dreadnought (?) --> Phoenix ???
TCA Alien Vessel (?) --> Phoenix ??? (300 light hulls)
I had a lot more BSE ship types on record, but on these I had either little information or they were not built anymore and had only a handful, if any, ships of that type remaining in the game. These include the KAS Transporter, KAS Diplomatic Cruiser, DNA Squidy Class Hulk (32), DNA Garbage Scow, DEN Direwolf, the FEL, CLN, FCN and HXM ships and few uniques such as EEM Mega Hauler, EEM Super Hauler, EEM Pocket Battleship (the famous Empress Sarah (1001)), EEM Troop Carrier, EEM Star Carrier, EEM/SMS Survey Scout, EEM Hermes and the mysterious Far Courier, Messiah, Luxury Liner and Luxury Cruiser classes whose background was lost in the mists of time.
From the looks of it, BSE class 8 ships were converted to 100 hulls, the only known class 9 to 125. Class 7 was generally converted to 75 hulls, class 4 to 25 hulls. Class 2 was converted to 10 hulls; War Galleys were treated as class 2 and only Yachts came out 5 hulls. As can be seen in the table above I have no conversion data on most EEM ships.
The BSE ships were obviously all converted to normal hulls except for cases where they had special warship abilities (--> Heavy hulls) or were designated freighters (--> Light hulls). The CIA Infiltrators and Runners are an exception, probably because being regarded as fast low-profile freighters; the KAS Cog came out as a pure freighter although it had been a decent warship, too.
The Phoenix EEM Yacht (760) blueprint was altered to 10 heavy hulls so it is arguable if this is identical to the 5 normal hull conversion ships although the ID number is the same.
The Phoenix Surveyor, Courier and Far Courier ships are not the same as the BSE ship types that got converted, as proven by the new ID number.
Besides filling in the blanks and question marks in the above list I'd like to know which (if any) of the classic BSE ship types are still produced. I can only personally confirm this for the basic Nebulon 160 where a Phoenix equivalent to the BSE ship was carefully designed.
What's so special about the old BSE ships? Mostly the fact that they could be coated with armour plating at the player's discretion as armour was not a part of BSE BPs. I've heard a rumour that old BSE ships can have their armour config altered by special actions in Phoenix as a result, but haven't tried it myself. It would certainly be a nice option to have - can anyone confirm?
But at the end of the day it's just my moot attempt to produce a clean IC explanation of the design changes.
| QUOTE (Frabby @ Jan 15 2006, 01:05 PM) |
| I've heard a rumour that old BSE ships can have their armour config altered by special actions in Phoenix as a result, but haven't tried it myself. It would certainly be a nice option to have - can anyone confirm? |
I can confirm - I used a special action to add armour plates to a standard 10-heavy-hull yacht, in order to provide DTR hero "Captain Penguin" with his first command.
http://www.spacious.com/forums/index.php?s...=403
TonyH
The GTT operated Behemoths went to design 181, which is the only Behemoth currently in production. Design 180 is a dead end, which we disown.
Also the GTT operated IMP Ships of the line went to the unique GTT designs 860, 861 or 862.
The one EEM Megahauler we operated was converted into a AFT supercarrier (?) prior to the conversion. On conversion that turned into a Kopis carrier, which I think was design 182.
We also converted all the EEM corvettes into the GTT design St Clair (711).
With the exception of the EEM Flagships during the conversion I deliberately put every GTT ship into one of the new designs, which meant that some of the battleships etc carried damage, to indicate that they were never "fully armoured" in BSE.
Trying to produce a ship specs sheet now would be a challenge.
We also have a number of BPs for obsolete designs which seemed a good iodea at the time.
Basically current ship design is what you want to use it for, only the hulls and armour cannot be changed.
Geoff
| QUOTE (Auld Nick @ Jan 15 2006, 08:56 PM) |
| The conversion from BSE designs to Pheonix was not as straight forward as you imply. |
I think we have to differentiate here.
The old BSE class 1 to 6 ships were all EEM designs and assumed to be identical designs used by all affiliations who could operate them. They were all and sundry converted into empty, un-armoured normal hull designs and individual positions then had armour added according to the armour they had in BSE. The conversion was pretty straightforward on these ship types.
Now here's me thinking it should be possible, for example, to research the EEM War Galley (10690), a 10 normal hull design with the innate ability to have its armour configuration altered via special actions.
Affiliation specific ships (those of BSE class 7 and above, and alien designs) are an entirely different thing. The affs were free to design sub-types and change individual ships into one of those subtypes. It could be argued that the possibility to have sub-types of the same fuselage removes the necessity to allow for interchangeable armour on those ships.
The same would be true for ship classes that were developed out of BSE class 1-6 classes after the conversion, like changing GTT Corvettes into the St.Clair class.
Following Mica's comments on conversion I regard the initial conversion version (eg. GTT Behemoth - Type 180) as the basic version of those ships. To give an exampe, I had purchased a Behemoth from the GTT in more peaceful times and it converted to type 180 (100LH). At the time of conversion DTR and GTT were in a shooting war so I could not expect the GTT to sanction the transformation of my ship into one of the fancier subtypes developed later such as the 100XL version. But, from a roleplaying perspective, the GTT did produce the basic type 180 at a time and sold one such ship to me. And it would theoretically be possible to research BP 10180 and mass produce them GTT ships if the underlying tech was available.
Now for the changes that were made. I believe very few affiliations bothered to alter their basic versions simply because that would also upgrade those ships owned by enemies or pirates. The DTR did it with the type 160 Nebulon, but also developed a number of subtypes. Like Geoff pointed out for the IMP, the DTR have changed existing BPs to adjust to rule changes instead of producing ever more ship types that would just end up as unused BPs.
The RIP never bothered to design fully kitted ships and still produce the basic type 260 Nemesis (at least I do know that BPs exist).
I would be interested to know what became of the basic versions of other BSE ships.
| QUOTE (Auld Nick @ Jan 15 2006, 08:56 PM) |
| The GTT operated Behemoths went to design 181, which is the only Behemoth currently in production. Design 180 is a dead end, which we disown. Also the GTT operated IMP Ships of the line went to the unique GTT designs 860, 861 or 862. The one EEM Megahauler we operated was converted into a AFT supercarrier (?) prior to the conversion. On conversion that turned into a Kopis carrier, which I think was design 182. We also converted all the EEM corvettes into the GTT design St Clair (711). |
I'd love to see that kind of information included in the ship BPs and/or the tech!
I would expect that the GTT types 860, 861 and 862 classes (called Warspite, Great Michael and Blue Blanket I think?) are based on the imperial Ship-o'-the-Line techology in Phoenix, as the GTT did not have warships of their own in BSE.
Similarly, the St.Clair BP would be based on EEM tech unless the GTT could build Corvettes in BSE.
Mainly in an effort to stop FEL ships maiming themsleves when they attemped to make large jumps. I wasnt playing at the time of conversion but as i undertand it (some one correct me if i am wrong) the fel decided on an united set of new fleet designs and CLN and FEL ships got converted to subtypes of the new combined fusulage, ie mamoths and dropships became sabertooth varients. Grizzlys and Mauders became Panther class varients. Only the Cheetah remains with us as an old design, mainly because it fits in phonenix niche so well as was superior to the Cygnets the FEL used
| QUOTE (Frabby @ Jan 16 2006, 12:25 PM) |
GTT types 860, 861 and 862 classes (called Warspite, Great Michael and Blue Blanket I think?) |
Warspite, Great Micheal and Green Lantern. Although I note the Green Lantern herself (The first. ex BSE ship) is refered to as a "Ship Of The Line (220) Class Interceptor" while the ones built since are "Green Lantern (862) Class Interceptor "
| QUOTE |
| Similarly, the St.Clair BP would be based on EEM tech unless the GTT could build Corvettes in BSE. |
Yes we could build Corvettes, along with the EEM battlecruiser.
Because we could build Battlecruisers, on the conversion we received the necessary tech to build warships as well as our merchant ships.
As we had the tech all I did was tidy things up.
If you have the tech to research the EEM wargalley (10690), then you have the tech to develop your own design. This is what we done with the EEM Corvette, which we now have four variants off, and the actual variation is in the armour, or lack of it.
I suppose we could produce the Behemoth (180) class if we wanted to, it is just a matter of running of a BP, but I would expect to have to call it something else.
Supra Freighter, 50 Light Hulls, type 540
SMS Flagship is type 281 and is 125 Normal Hull Mk II.
Mick.