Just how do you picture a starbase with an income of 10k income, 20k and 40k?
I would really like to see your views on this, because i am not at your place, so cant see how you view the game, but you can show us, lets see how you picture a starbase setup with complexes at those 3 income ratings?
| QUOTE (Garg @ Jul 18 2005, 11:29 AM) |
| ok in Platforms and AIs thread mica suddenly says we are suppose to have just as many troops as employees? since when have that been applied, i began before phoenix and was there at the beginning, no one said you where to have that many before! Just how do you picture a starbase with an income of 10k income, 20k and 40k? I would really like to see your views on this, because i am not at your place, so cant see how you view the game, but you can show us, lets see how you picture a starbase setup with complexes at those 3 income ratings? |
the 1:1 ratio has always been the suggestion. Its how the $1 per mu average price tag is worked out (and I think its in that section of the rules, guides, etc).
I tried to post to the main thread, but its been locked?
Mark
But not a word on you needing that many troops, even suggested.
At the time, the base had around 1000 complexes, so I don't think this 10 per complex is something new that Mica's just introduced. He's not saying that you *have* to do this, but that if you don't, then your base could be at risk?
cheers
weenie
| QUOTE (Garg @ Jul 18 2005, 12:43 PM) |
| i have played phoenix from the start, i never heard of you needing 10 per complex, i just heard of other affs who had so many troops to begin with, that they where going bankrupt and they began to disband their troops. But not a word on you needing that many troops, even suggested. |
Well on first view of Mica's comment I thought 10% of a bases population being military staff was actually quite high, but I guess it depends on how you view what a starbase actually represents.
If seen as a military complex then it is indeed a pretty low figure.
The complication is that starbases are the sources of production - rather than production being sourced from the planets civilian population (ie rather than factories being spread across the globe and the starbase effectively buying finished goods from them, they are all centred at player run bases). As such it has been easy to see a base as a production centre rather than as a strategic point.
| QUOTE (Garg @ Jul 18 2005, 12:11 PM) |
| still mica have never shown any exsamples of what starbases should be like, so he keeps on saying, it should be like this, but how are any of us really to know, when we have never seen how a Phoenix base is suppose to look like, its like playing blindfolded, you do stuff then you are told, sorry its wrong what you are doing, but what is right, when we have nothing to base it on!? |
There is no perfect base on which to compare things. A base on a high income world, with no minerals is going to look radically different to one on a mineral rich asteroid.
There are guides though and to be honest I dont know where they came from, or who told me (though Im sure they are from "official" sources!), such as :
- 1:1 employee:troop ratio
- 25% of base mass as defence equipment.
they are only guidelines though - if your base is in a hidden or a safe location (yank...ish) you may think you can do with less defences. if its your Capital, you may want more. Or you could do what most people do - get everything else built first and rely on luck and wishful thinking that you wont be hit before you are ready
Its other players who will attack you (well...and mica
), so you have to defend based on what they can do. Asking how many troops to have is the "how long is a piece of string?" question. You have as many as think will put an enemy off attacking you.
mark
The economy of the game, the very fundamental value of items is based on Troop expenses coming into the mix.
Value of Constructed items - 100% troops, 100% complexes (trader)
Defence of starbases - platforms (basic starbase rules)
Troops, troops, troops, troops, troops (ground combat)
The basics then (as per the economy of Phoenix):
1:1 troop:employee.
10% (produced) mass in defence.
5-10% complexes as starbase shields.
Platform - optional dependent on location/strength of cavalry fleet.
All this though can be ignored/modified as long as one simple rule is obeyed:
Is it worth the effort/loss to either capture/destroy this starbase?
If the answer is YES - then you need to do something.
As an aside
RDB's - good so long as you can hold the starbase - if you loose control, the new owners will not only have sufficient troops, but also lots of RDB's to cream your fleeing tanks/troops!
If everybody has very little troops, then nobody has enough to attack and defend so you are safe and the status-quo is maintained. However, now people have been active in ground combat and realise what it takes to capture starbases as a consequence some poeple will be recruiting. So what may be rare now may not be rare forever - the point is, when 50k mercs are at your starbase gates, catch-up may be too late.
Would you rather recruit 50k troops and capture a starbase of 1500 complexes or build a starbase of 1500 complexes and loose it to 50k troops? We are not saying it is easy, but it is viable.
| QUOTE (Garg @ Jul 18 2005, 12:11 PM) |
| still mica have never shown any exsamples of what starbases should be like, so he keeps on saying, it should be like this, but how are any of us really to know, when we have never seen how a Phoenix base is suppose to look like, its like playing blindfolded, you do stuff then you are told, sorry its wrong what you are doing, but what is right, when we have nothing to base it on!? |
Personally, I don't think there is a need for Mica to show examples of what a starbase should be like.
I only have an idea of what some other DEN starbases look like and I am sure I'd be correct in saying that the bases of other affiliations would all be different.
There's no real right or wrong, isn't it just a case of balance?
A base with 20k employees but only 2k troops will be great at production, research etc, but poor in troop defence.
A base with 2k employees and 20k troops would have the opposite effect.
The balance would surely be 10k to 10k (or thereabouts) but it's down to the individual/affiliation as to which tactic you should have and aim for?
cheers
weenie
So production wins out fine, but again problem is that not all starbases are on that good planets, so if someone uses 50k mercs, then are most bases most likely lost, even if they go with 100% use of income on mercs alone, because they simply cant earn 10k to 50k per week already, their only hope is to use production to survive!
Mica wrote:
As an aside
RDB's - good so long as you can hold the starbase - if you loose control, the new owners will not only have sufficient troops, but also lots of RDB's to cream your fleeing tanks/troops!
If everybody has very little troops, then nobody has enough to attack and defend so you are safe and the status-quo is maintained. However, now people have been active in ground combat and realise what it takes to capture starbases as a consequence some poeple will be recruiting. So what may be rare now may not be rare forever - the point is, when 50k mercs are at your starbase gates, catch-up may be too late.
Would you rather recruit 50k troops and capture a starbase of 1500 complexes or build a starbase of 1500 complexes and loose it to 50k troops? We are not saying it is easy, but it is viable.
So i dislike it, when he says it should be this way, but we cant see what he means in general, because he got a better view of the game then we do, but then we might have found a better way then he have, but again how are you to tell, when we dont even know what a basic base should look like?
The ideal is 10 troops per complexes,it's does not mean that each complex needs 10 troops!!!
But to have a proper ground defense the ideal ratio is the 10 troops per complex! Repeated myself there I know:rolleyes:
If I'm wrong Mica can tell me to shut up!
http://www.spacious.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11
Its not been shouted every 10 mins but it has always been there.
My original point in the AI thread though, is that my bases will certainly no longer be able to match that ratio with the troop requirements of platforms. It will take us an age to recruit replacements, and training replacements is pretty much out of the question, certainly in the short term.
Proper defenses depend on what other players normally deploy when they assault an starbase. :-)
| QUOTE (Sjaak @ Jul 18 2005, 01:39 PM) |
| Hi Ted (and others), Proper defenses depend on what other players normally deploy when they assault an starbase. :-) |
Invariably players deploy sufficient to capture the starbase.
This said, players will only deploy if capture/destroy is viable.
Defence should therefore be based on ensuring it is not viable.
We are not dictating how you play the game, we are just ensuring that you are making informed decisions when you decide to protect your $20 Million starbase with a few thousand mercs and a tanks.
| QUOTE (Ro'a-lith @ Jul 18 2005, 01:39 PM) |
| My original point in the AI thread though, is that my bases will certainly no longer be able to match that ratio with the troop requirements of platforms. It will take us an age to recruit replacements, and training replacements is pretty much out of the question, certainly in the short term. |
Eh?
Convert Naval Items
Research > starbase shield
40 Employees > 40 mercs
In case you know enemy got way more troops then you, then will you opt to bombard a starbase to death, rather then trying to capture it, because you know its stupid to assault it.
| QUOTE (Garg @ Jul 19 2005, 02:06 PM) |
| I have been thinking about this and i have to say i dont agree mica, because if a 50k troop army and equipment is coming to even a good planet, even with 50% troops you might loss still as it all depends on the equipment killing power, but even if you do win, then will your lack of production, research or whatever you sacrifised to run so many troops, will mean enemy can replace equipment fast and make more warships to kill you off with, production is key here. In case you know enemy got way more troops then you, then will you opt to bombard a starbase to death, rather then trying to capture it, because you know its stupid to assault it. |
Then you should opt to have fewer troops....and just let me know which of the FCN bases they are
As to the opt to destroy it - thats still an option, but thats what starbase shields are to help against...
Mark
FLZ