To me its like a supermarket, that is busy, but they dont want some of their workers to do anything, because they are just paid for being there, does that sound right?
I think its a bug, that surpluss employees dont get pulled in, to sort out any slacks that might happen, so that we poor players, dont have to keep 100% control each day or as many does, limit the surpluss employees, to avoid paying for nothing.
So i think this should be sorted out.
Hence, not enough command complexes = efficiency drop. On the other hand, if you're willing to pay overtime rates to your employees, they will work more efficiently. Excess employees is neither here nor there; each complex only uses a certain number of employees, and throwing more bodies at it won't make the place more effiecient.
But, without that middle management, your efficiency suffers.
If i was an employee i would slow down work, for force efficiency down, so to get more money, but its a stupid system.
All it currently means is that i should cut away the surpluss employees, so i can use the extra money freed up to run better efficiency, this is highly boring for the game and i am not an accoundent nor a computer, so cant keep track of everyone 100%.
Also a governor who actually runs the starbase, would know about these problems, i only do so, if i dont miss anything in the looks i do on the base turns, i afterall dont live in the starbase, i live in real life.
If this was a proper computer game, then will you in many of them now, get warnings if there is problems, this is seriously lacking in phoenix, especially on efficiency because it have a big effect on turn print day.
there needs to be more info on the political at least, i wish it would daily update info on starbase efficiency and starships, so for better guidence.
granted, they could be reported with a touch more clarity, but the current readouts do give you all the information you need
Dan
Point is that i would rather prefer starbases doing daily prints, so spread out what they do daily, that way i would know for sure, if there is any problems.
or at least info daily on political, that show problems with ships, outposts and starbases.
But we got nothing, except on print day, when its too late.
| QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Feb 8 2006, 08:31 AM) |
| Yup, here at KJC we often have three people using the same keyboard at the same time, this way we are super efficient. |
In reply
| QUOTE (Garg) |
| then why can the 10 employees still get the job done, just by getting more money? |
Unless the workers are slacking off, in which case putting an extra worker at each keyboard may stop them browsing the inter-galactic wide web
I mean techinally they work, what was it 50 hours a week based on a 225 hour week? (5 days @ 45hours each)
Seems to me cycling employees would allow up to 4.5 times as many, unless of course this is already taken into consideration and it's actually already four and half shifts of 2.2 employees per complex per shift
Mica, it does not have to do with 3 people at the same keyboard, if you pay them more, do they then work longer or just faster? i would think its longer, that means the surpluss people you got in the starbase, should be able to do the surpluss stuff instead of you having to pay more money to everyone, to compensate.
note, i had 16 complexes too many, even if i did pay more wages, then why should i really have to pay for all my people and troops, to fix 16? and more why should the 16 complexes effect everything else?
if none of the other things will be sorted, then at least you should be able to specify which complexes will experience problems, in case of problems.
I pay for my starbase, give me better controls damnit
| QUOTE (Garg @ Feb 7 2006, 06:28 PM) |
| One of my starbases run with 16 complexes more then it could handle, but if i had notished, i could have paid the employees some more money to compensate, but why cant the surpluss employees not be used to compensate, i am afterall paying them for being around. |
Just to get this straight - are you talking insufficent workhours or insufficient command complexes?
So.. if command complexes provide networking / power / etc for other complexes then it would make sense that more employes couldn't effect this, if your using all your computing power thats it.
Of course paying them extra wouldn't help then either.
So add it so, that 1 type of complexes will be effected first, i would perhaps add mines, if its not that important or even merchandising as the drop of income dont mean too much, so that it will not hurt more important stuff.
| QUOTE (Mica Goldstone @ Feb 8 2006, 09:31 AM) |
| Yup, here at KJC we often have three people using the same keyboard at the same time, this way we are super efficient. |
Hmm. must be playing one of those older multiplay games released before somebody thought of network play.
| QUOTE |
| Excess work-hours may be used to accommodate any efficiency drop from lack of command complexes (or any other reason). |
Which I think pretty much answers earlier assertions made by garg.
So mica, will you activate that bit soon? as i really would like it, as i got surpluss emps at my starbases.
Garg's argument is that extra workers should be able to compensate for the lack of command complex services. But that need not be so: How could excess workers compensate for a power failure, or a bottleneck in your local network that slows the entire thing down? What about no toner left for your printers, or even, insufficient keyboards for your employees?
You could therefore say that efficiency drop from command complexes stands for things that cannot be covered with extra workforce under normal conditions.
However, rules are rules and if the rules explicitly state that excess workers can compensate then either the rules have to be changed (but please announce this for a change!) or the current implementation is bugged and needs to be altered.
| QUOTE (Frabby @ Feb 8 2006, 04:27 PM) |
| You could therefore say that efficiency drop from command complexes stands for things that cannot be covered with extra workforce under normal conditions. |
But it *can* currently be compensated for by increased wages, either it should work for both or for neither depending if more workhours can replace whatever command complexes do.
| QUOTE (ptb @ Feb 8 2006, 04:32 PM) | ||
But it *can* currently be compensated for by increased wages, either it should work for both or for neither depending if more workhours can replace whatever command complexes do. |
Just because you have additional employees it doesn't neccessarily mean that they have the skills to fill any role that becomes vacant.
Industrial Mod:
"These contain industrial robots and machines along with equipment that can be turned to a number of functions. They need to be programmed and secured before use."
BCM
"These contain refining equipment as well as robots designed to perform delicate operations. They need to be programmed and secured before use."
TM
"These contain various robotic vehicles as well as specialist shipping and handling machinery. They have to be prepared and secured before use."
- presumably then, employees at a complex need some level of training in the use of the machinery/guidance of the robots before they can be let loose.
Furthermore, whilst you could have umpteen shift patterns, your using the same machinery which would presumably need some maintenance time...so perhaps if you were to increase the number of shifts, there should also be a chance that the whole complex breaks down due to lack of maintenance?...
ohh and in case you missed it, Angel found the part in the rules that says, that surpluss employees will compensate for lacking complexes.
| QUOTE |
Excess work-hours may be used to accommodate any efficiency drop from lack of command complexes (or any other reason). |
which isn't the same thing as "Excess employees".
Regarding the option to specify which complexes suffer the loss of efficiency, it seems to over-complicate matters.
A drop in efficiency of one department could be seen as effecting the whole organisation, espcially if due to lack of central resources.
From someone who works in a service department, I can tell you that lowering the priority of scheduled work from another department only increases the number of phone cals and queries from them...
| QUOTE (Garg @ Feb 8 2006, 06:32 PM) |
| i have to disagree with you on that duckworth, if this is really the case, then do mica have to setup training complexes for employees, otherwise does it not make any sense. ohh and in case you missed it, Angel found the part in the rules that says, that surpluss employees will compensate for lacking complexes. |
Training complexes for employees would perhaps take micro-management a little too far - consider it as on the job training, but training that is a little too complex to show someone who is just filling in a few hours to make-up the shortfall.
- simply put, if a you have a staff vacancy in a skilled job you don't just grab someone of the street to fill in. In game terms, command complexes perhaps organise the employees best suited to take up the role. For example with not enough command complexes, then there are not enough people to wade through the red tape that gives security clearance to authorise Employee Jose Sanchez to amble around the starbase and enter factory complex 5.
Besides, if you suddenly say that excess employees could fill the gap in workhours, then surely the logical conclusion is that each complex should be able to produce at above 100% efficiency if you have enough command complexes and excess employees? - indeed you wouldn't neccessarily need enough command complexes.
Now I'm not neccessarily opposed to that idea, indeed if a starbase was under ground attack for example it would seem to make sense that you could try to eek out every MU worth of production from factories that you could - but I think that there should be a negative effect of what is effectively overworking the complex itself - perhaps the risk it will close for a week as it would presumably have less maintenance?
In the short term do think it would be practical to have two lines added such as;
Number of command complexes for 100% efficiency: #
Number of complexes until next command complex: #
so that you can see what current requirement is, and how many you can build before you build your next command complex.
| QUOTE (Duckworth-Lewis @ Feb 9 2006, 11:45 AM) |
| Number of command complexes for 100% efficiency: # Number of complexes until next command complex: # |
Well already have in a way, total active complexes is given and the number of comand centers is just that divided by 100 round up (pretty easy to do in your head
)Still a note saying how many more complexes would be nice.
As it is right now, employees can run all kinds of complexes, except for security, which also requires troops, just any kind will do.
So dont talk about stuff that is not in the game or if this is how you want it, then setup a suggestion for it, if you dont want too, then stop making comments about stuff not in the game.
So some more info would be nice, because its easy to overlook problems with starbases due to the massive info you can end up with, when you got a big starbases and your NPC workers dont highlight problems <g>
| QUOTE (ptb @ Feb 9 2006, 11:27 AM) |
| Well already have in a way, total active complexes is given and the number of comand centers is just that divided by 100 round up |
Don't we also have to ignore Cave and Dome complexes????
(Adding the exra lines of reporting to the starbase printout is a good idea though...)
However, I suspect you don't seriously see all employees as being clone-like - all with exactly the same skills? They are surely skilled at different tasks - ie; some have the skills needed for mining, some to operate factory equipment, because the jobs they can have are so varied: it's just that it is easier for game mechanics purposes to lump them under the catch all of "Employee".
The way I see it, having excess employees brings up a couple of issues;
1) It devalues the need for command complexes.
2) By saying that 13 employees can work at a complex which is at 80% efficiency because of a lack of command complexes, then that implies that you could have 13 employees working at a complex at 100% efficiency, which in turn means there would be additional production.
I am asking about getting some options, that does that i can better run my positions, i bet many others would also like these added, you might not, then good for you.
All employees in this game is really now just clones, all races can do the same, well almost, kastorians are higher tech race and natives are low tech, but besides this, we are all the same, i dont want this, but its how the game is now.
I got surpluss employees at my starbases, to make sure i can make new complexes and they might as well help a bit, if there is some problems, being over the command complexes with just 16 complexes, meant a bit deal, research is now screwed up on several things, production went badly etc.
If i could at least specify a complex type that would be hit instead, in case of problems, then would i have taken the mines, 16 of them working poorly is way better then having everything else working poorly. You might not agree, but its my starbase, i pay for it, so i want better control.
Duckworth wrote
The way I see it, having excess employees brings up a couple of issues;
1) It devalues the need for command complexes.
2) By saying that 13 employees can work at a complex which is at 80% efficiency because of a lack of command complexes, then that implies that you could have 13 employees working at a complex at 100% efficiency, which in turn means there would be additional production.
Geoff
| QUOTE (HPSimms @ Feb 10 2006, 12:13 PM) |
| May I suggest is that another solution is to manage your starbase by checking the amount of complexes against the available Command Complexes and building another one before the crisis point is reached? Geoff |
Now that sounds like an idea! If you put x complexes on research and you only have x-y, then y get built, but if yx2500 work hours is above your free work-hours it does something else and so on.
If you overbuild, or make a mistake, then suffer for it. Pay more attention next time. I for one use an excel spreadsheet that calculates all this stuff for me
I dont mind a mistake at times, but i do mind the mistake, that will screw up my entire starbase turn, thats why you need to have some kind of way to sort out minor issue, that have this big an effect, after all its 16 complexes making a mess of 316 compelxes at once.
If i in real life ran the starbase, i would most likely have heard from those overseeing power, that there seems to be a problem, due to being close to the limit, if i could then not setup a new command complexes, i would either shootdown some complexes or effect a special group of complexes, the workers there will not mind, because they still get paid, most people will be happy with some more free time <g>
say you have 81 complexes assigned to a project - if you set the conversion at 8,100 points the slightest miscalculation leads to a missed week of conversion. Set it to 7,000 and you'd need a monumental miscalculation to prevent a research conversion that week - you don't lose excess research points, the conversion is based on the actual amount you convert.
Dan
Of course, If the command complex requirement was based on required work-hours, it would mean you'd need one per 19 research complexes... which would be OK by me, but not everyone, I assume.
And it would make keeping track of the command complex requirement harder, not easier - we Krell agree on NOTHING.
TonyH