| Dan Reed | |||||
| The two most important changes to note in the mechanics of the research procedure from BSE to phoenix are that technology has mass, and the research is not a simple "get to x thousand points and it's done". As a final successful result to a planned research project, you will receive (in ascending mass size) a Blueprint (100MU's mass), Technique (1000 MU's mass) or principle (5000 MU's mass). These are physical items in the game that can be bought, sold, moved or destroyed in battle. For any of them the procedure is the same. The Research Procedure 1. Issue the set research project order. This can be used as often as you like to juggle your research complexes between projects, or to change the conversion threshold (see later). To start a new project will cost 10,000 stellars, but later changes are free. 2. Each week, every research complex assigned to the project will add 100 research points to the project (Note this is affected by starbase efficiency, so a 50% efficient starbase will only add 50 points per complex). Each complex requires 2500 workhours to run (or 50 stellars at standard wage rates) each week. 3. This continues until the project has ammassed points equalling the conversion threshold set by the "set Research Project " order. The points get converted into mass (up to 100 MU's worth) - see below 4. If the total mass for the research project is now achieved, the project finished and the technology item is placed (tooled) in the starbase. If not, the complexes start building up points towards another conversion (ie. go to point 2) The Conversion In the rulebook, there is a table with research points on the left and a minimum result on the right. The maximum result is 100 MU's towards the principle, technique or blueprint you're trying to build. This is the base result, assuming that there are no other factors affecting the research: If you are missing some of the required principles and techniques you move up (ie. worse) three rows for each missing principle order (so a second level principle moves you up six rows), and seven rows for each technique order. If you are missing techniques it is a LONG job to research anything! If you are copying a new technology item from one you already have you move down (ie. better) two rows. A scientist who specialises in the field you are researching also moves you down one to three rows. So at the time of the conversion you will get from the minimum result for the (adjusted) conversion threshold, up to 100 MU's towards the project. If you have missing tech, or set a very low conversion threshold (NOT recommended!), you can add nothing at all, have the project stalled or even damage the starbase. The moral of this story is, make absolutely sure this can't happen - work out what row your conversion will use! Since the maximum mass you can get is 100 MU's per conversion, and you only get one conversion per week, the absolute minimum time you can research anything in is 1 week for a blueprint, 10 weeks for a technique and 50 weeks for a principle. It's relatively fast to expand the production of items that you already know how to produce, but advancing the total knowledge of your aff is a long-term project..... | |||||
| nortonweb | |||||
| Hi Can I ask a question about coping BP’s. Based on the text above what would happen if I were to try to, say copy a Cryo Pods BP and didn’t have the Prerequisite Cryogenics. A Cryo pod is a tech level 2 item. So am I going to be 12 rows worse off (minus 14 for the technique and plus 2 for already having BP) or is it just plus 2 for BP. I can’t tell from the text if they are rules that are mutually exclusive or not Also does the table in the rulebook for points keep on going. For example if I am at –12 rows that means 28900 points is the same as 3600 (stalled 2 items) if I set it to 84100 would I then be guaranteed a success (I worked this out by each step having 200 extra points on top of the difference between it and the one before it) Cheers Pete | |||||
| Dan Reed | |||||
| All bonuses and penalties are cumulative - so if you get -14 for not having the right technique, but already have a bp then the net penalty is -12 Dan | |||||
| Ro'a-lith | |||||
| As far as I'm aware, penalties from having missing blueprints and techniques are not cumulative. For example, researching RDB Mk2 without the underlying principles and tech only actually results in a -7 penalty from the missing tech - whichever penalty is higher seems to apply. So, for example, copying a level 2 (RDB Mk2) blueprint, where the blueprint is in your starbase, results in a total modifier of -5 (-7 for the missing tech, and +2 for copy a blueprint tooled in your starbase). | |||||
| Dan Reed | |||||
All applicable bonuses and penalties are cumulative! But you are only "missing" requisite techniques and principles if they are listed in the techmanual for the research you are attempting - they do not stack back to the base of the tech tree (or several affs would have been shafted by the BSE to Phoenix conversion!) For example, any of the photon weaponry blueprints depend on Photon Beam Weaponry (8500) but not Energetics (8024) | |||||
| nortonweb | |||||
| Ok. My next point then is why get a minus when the starbase doesn't have the Prerequisite tech for research. The BP is meant to contain full information on how to produce the item. So why does a full team of trained research technicians also need full information on everything that lead up to this to reproduce a lot of data and tools. Perhaps if they wanted to extend it but if it contains enough data for a semi-automated factory system to produce the item surly it contains all you need to know to create a new copy of it. I mean a research complex is the most highly staffed facility within a starbase, and to reproduce the instructions to produce something you already know about (without a plus or minus for copied) would still cost 24,450 stellars (10K for the project start and 14,450 in wages based on being in a starbase). Not a drop in my standard ocean. Pete | |||||
| Dan Reed | |||||
The blueprint is not a sheet of paper with a drawing on it - it also includes specialised tooling and equipment for it's 100 MU's - Hence the need for skilled staff to duplicate it (albeit having a copy makes it easier!). You might have a black box that takes a few materials and transforms them into a Mk 4 widget - but could you make another one without understanding what all the funny stuff inside that black box is about? There is also a game balance/longevity perspective to it, quite separate to the IC explanation for the game mechanic. If you can copy any blueprint that you have in your posession without penalties it suddenly becomes a hell of a lot easier to get the really high tech stuff. Instead of working your way up the tech tree, you take the pain ONCE to research a blueprint with a heavy minus, then get to copy it as easily as the lowest-tech blueprints around. As things stand, you get to choose between the copying blueprints at a heavy negative forever, or taking the time to invest in the underlying research Dan | |||||
| nortonweb | |||||
| The answer to A is yes. You can copy something with out a total understanding of how the underlining tech work. B on the other hand out-weights any argument I can throw at you. As a game mechanic it might be needed but then I would say perhaps more than a 2 row shift (which only saves 64 complex/weeks or 3200 stellar) Pete | |||||
| Andy | |||||
No The conversion works first and then you get the bonuses added. Eg. You convert 28900 points and you get 100MU of mass. You then have a minus 7 modifier which means you only get 30MU mass. Form your example if you convert 84100 points you will only get 100MU the same as 28900. You still have to modify this by the -7, so you will only ever get 30MU no matter how many research points you have. The way to do this is convert on 28900 severl times until you get 100MU mass. If your modifier is greater than -7 don't bother doing the research - do the underlying tech or principle first. Andy | |||||
| Dan Reed | |||||
and you can with the current setup - but at -5 as you have no real idea how to do it...
The saving all depends on what settings you have decided to use. I would argue that if you've chosen to use 289 complexes to copy a blueprint (at a net penalty of -5 instead of -7) then you've increased the minimum result from 30 to 50, and thus reduced the worst-case build time from 4 weeks to 2. Based on an estimate of the likely results without copying you would take 3 weeks without copying - a saving of 289 complex weeks or $14,450. Of course if you were really unlucky when researching without a copy, the fourth week's costs would only be $11,250 as 225 complexes would guaratee you got the remaining 10MU. Of course, there are very few instances where it is worth copying a blueprint at a net -5.... usually the long-term gain of researching the technique outweighs the short term gain of having another blueprint, especially if you already have the requirements for the technique! If you have 289 complexes available for a single project, then that would give you the technique in 10 weeks, and then you can copy one bp a week (with 225 complexes, not 289) - and also research the other bp's that the technique gives you, without penalty Dan |