Is (or shouldn't) the mus of goods that can be bought from one starbase by another starbase with the "buy" order be limited by the available shuttleport/teleporter capacity of the starbase doing the buying?
I ask because I managed to buy over 50,000mus of patches from a starbase when my starbase only had around 8000mus shuttleport capacity remaining this week. Surely it is the shuttles that are going and collecting the items.
If the ways I've seen things work today is correct then all the stuff I want to move from one starbase on a planet to another I'll just put on the private market and buy it, saving me weeks of pickups which are limited by shuttleport/teleporter capacity.
Let the xcuse be that hiport workers are fitted with very nice cargo conveyers
| QUOTE (Avatar @ Jun 26 2003, 05:22 PM) |
| I think it's best we don't go that way! |
Why ever not?!?
Starbases are fixed installations, and cannot move around on the world. Likewise, hiports are fixed installations: they are attached to the starbase, and cannot be used to move around in orbit! Like Lee, I'd always assumed that the capacity of buying from/selling to another starbase on the same world was limited by shuttle/teleporter capacity. It seems to me to be the approach that makes sense...
Richard
AFT
| QUOTE |
| Because next we will wnat to limit it to unused shuttle capacity. |
i think maybe it should be the shuttle capacity that determines if you can do it. It somwhow doesn't feel right that you can do an unlimited amount at the moment.
| QUOTE |
| If the ways I've seen things work today is correct then all the stuff I want to move from one starbase on a planet to another I'll just put on the private market and buy it, saving me weeks of pickups which are limited by shuttleport/teleporter capacity. |
Its a bug - i'm removing it now... Does mean teleporters can buy from anywhere in the system, not sure i like that at the moment.
David
No reason why teleporters shouldn't be able to buy from anywhere in the system is there? If buying via a shuttleport from another starbase on the same planet is valid, then why not via teleporter from another starbase in the same system?
| QUOTE (Kragnost @ Jun 27 2003, 07:38 AM) |
| No reason why teleporters shouldn't be able to buy from anywhere in the system is there? If buying via a shuttleport from another starbase on the same planet is valid, then why not via teleporter from another starbase in the same system? |
I'm with Lee on this one. If a starbase or outpost has a teleporter complex is should be able to buy from any starbase in the system (up to the teleporter limit of course).
Kerry
Teleports can already pickup from anywhere, and a buy is essentially a pickup in one direction and a transfer of stellars in the other. Since stellar transfers are not location-specific there should be no reason why a governor can't do that
Dan
Not at all - what gives you that idea? To pickup from any position you need the security code. Markets work such that a starbase can make goods available in exchange for stellars without having to give authorisations/security codes. Using a teleporter is just the same as using shuttles to conduct your trade. The shuttle pilots don't walk away from the pad and hand over a big bag of stellars (at least not in my mind they don't). The payment is arranged electronically and the transport mechanism (ship/shuttle/teleporter/gp) just collects the items from the starbase with the market.
But basically, if it is possible to buy an item and teleport it, what is there to stop someone with a teleporter from just taking an item? The game mechanic is the security code - but surely a security code isnt really much use if you can teleport items?
...or is there an assumption that all goods are stored in some kind of shielded warehouses?
| QUOTE (Duckworth-Lewis @ Jun 28 2003, 01:47 PM) |
| But basically, if it is possible to buy an item and teleport it, what is there to stop someone with a teleporter from just taking an item? The game mechanic is the security code - but surely a security code isnt really much use if you can teleport items? ...or is there an assumption that all goods are stored in some kind of shielded warehouses? |
Well, a lot is made of the ISR field that command complexes have, so I'm sure some kind of pseudo-physics could be used to "justify" it. Equally the secure code and authorisations as game mechanics are used to represent the actual in-game processes that would be necessary to gain the access required. It's not a case of "give me some photon cannon please , authorisation XYZ1" it's a whole raft of security protocols and procedures (including the locking on of teleporter fields perhaps). Equally with buying and selling, the "authorisation" is stellar balance.
We don't argue the case of ships, shuttles or GP's getting hold of the goods that they buy or pick up with authorisation/secure code, the actual process is glossed over - and they equally can't get stuff without one of those methods. This would be equally true for teleporters....
Dan
| QUOTE |
| what is there to stop someone with a teleporter from just taking an item? |
isn't it that most people are honest and wouldn't dream of doing such a thing.
| QUOTE (Duckworth-Lewis @ Jun 28 2003, 02:47 PM) |
| But basically, if it is possible to buy an item and teleport it, what is there to stop someone with a teleporter from just taking an item? |
If this were the situation then teleporters wouldn't be in the game. What would there be to stop people from picking up anything, irrespective of if it were on the market or not? I could come along, setup an outpost in the same system as you, build 100 teleporter complexes, then teleport out of your starbase 100,000mus of space/ground defences each week until you had none left and there's nothing you could do about it as the first 100,000mus would be your space weaponry to attack anything that you sent against the outpost. Once the starbase is devoid of any defneces I drop in a couple of thoudand startroopers and you've lost your starbase.
Teleporters have already been reduced in their effectiveness from what was originally planned as they are unable to deliver items. Don't limit them further by prevening market purchases too.
| QUOTE (Kragnost @ Jun 28 2003, 11:26 PM) |
| Teleporters have already been reduced in their effectiveness from what was originally planned as they are unable to deliver items. Don't limit them further by prevening market purchases too. |
Yeah that not being able to deliver items sucks big time.
| QUOTE (kerryh @ Jun 29 2003, 01:11 AM) |
| Yeah that not being able to deliver items sucks big time. |
the alternative sucked even more - the ability for troops to be stationed at one starbase, then delivered to any facility in the system at need. Now that battles are not "instant" it removed the need for you to defend each starbase - you just had to keep enough to last a day and a bit in each starbase, and keep a huge reserve in one place.
It made systems almost impregnable - you could have 50 or 100 starbases in a system and only need to defend one. Several alternatives were considered (reducing capacity dependant on how far across the system you were moving items for example), but most ended up too complex for them to be easily understood....
You can still do the "defend all from one" trick in theory - but it takes a huge number of teleporters and thus is not really worth doing with free ship turns available
| QUOTE (Dan Reed @ Jun 29 2003, 09:17 AM) |
| You can still do the "defend all from one" trick in theory - but it takes a huge number of teleporters and thus is not really worth doing with free ship turns available |
Yes you can, you can also do something similiar with fast stealthed troop ships. And a huge number of teleporters really ain't that expensive to get ahold if you know the right people. However the "defend all from one" tactic can easily be countered by a little pre-combat planning on the part of any attacker. Impregnable fortresses only exist in bad fiction, any static fortication can eventually be reduced and all outposts and starbases are by their very nature static.
But I still think the limitation sucks, a better move would been to have made teleporters incapable of teleporting any lifeforms or better yet just don't allow them to work while a position is engaged in combat, after all I believe they are based on the game's ISR technobabble which supposedly doesn't work in combat unless you get far enough away, why should teleporters be any different? I know I wouldn't mind seeing their ability to import items during combat removed for the ability to do both pickups & delivers (and thus buys & sells) anywhere in the system.
Kerry
| QUOTE (kerryh @ Jun 29 2003, 05:46 PM) |
| Yes you can, you can also do something similiar with fast stealthed troop ships. |
Wouldn't a pinned starbase prevent delivery of troops from anything but teleporters?
| QUOTE (Steve-Law @ Jun 29 2003, 10:17 PM) |
| Wouldn't a pinned starbase prevent delivery of troops from anything but teleporters? |
I wasn't thinking of actually delivering troops to the starbase but dropping a fully formed GP at the same location with attack orders for the attacking GP. Although I'm not sure if ground combat actually pins, I don't think it does?
| QUOTE (kerryh @ Jun 29 2003, 09:32 PM) |
| I wasn't thinking of actually delivering troops to the starbase but dropping a fully formed GP at the same location with attack orders for the attacking GP. |
which has a chance for some or all of the ships moving the GP in to be discovered, and also for the troops to take incoming fire... something which allowing teleporters to deliver would circumvent - you could get the troops to the starbase without risk.
Teleporters being able to pickup while the starbase is pinned is still a big advantage over shuttleports in combat....
Dan
| QUOTE (kerryh @ Jun 29 2003, 05:46 PM) |
| But I still think the limitation sucks, a better move would been to have made teleporters incapable of teleporting any lifeforms or better yet just don't allow them to work while a position is engaged in combat, after all I believe they are based on the game's ISR technobabble which supposedly doesn't work in combat unless you get far enough away, why should teleporters be any different? |
I like this point about transporting lifeforms, if doubled with the other point about being able to teleport during combat (maybe the attackers can interfere with the teleport signal or something) then might it allow for two way teleport travel without allowing the single-pool-of-troops-scenario?
hehe - could make it more political by preventing all teleporting in or out from a planet/moon where a starbase was involved in combat - an example of war being bad for trade
